Only consenting to receiving medical treatment from a female is not acceptable

[Siameasy]

mobile.twitter.com/Docstockk/status/1198215833006362630

One NHS trust says it’s unacceptable for women to say they only consent to medical treatment from “natal females”. I find this completely outrageous and couldn’t find a thread on it already. Bloody hell!

I know this has been said a lot on this thread, but males who want to perform intimate procedures on women who have expressly said they don’t want to have a male do the procedure shouldn’t be working in medicine or anywhere probably

This is blindingly obvious. Which is why Hooves has to constantly misdirect the thread to imply it's about something other than women's privacy and dignity and boundaries.

You are right Cuckoo

Sorry to link the rag that is The Guttardian but this shows how a man exploited his position to sexually abusing women while they were frozen in his chair:

www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2018/nov/22/melbourne-dentist-jailed-for-indecently-assaulting-patients-and-staff-over-two-decades

And if anyone prefers a female dentist they should be able to have one! No matter how sulky that makes some people.

Hooves if a trans identifying woman passed so well that I believed they were actually a man then no, I wouldn't want that person performing a smear test etc on me. If there was full and open communication about who they were...maybe.

There needs to be a certain level of trust between a HCP and patient - I don't trust men, including in a healthcare setting, including if there's a chaperone in the room.

Trans people need to realise that those other than them have thoughts, feelings and traumas of their own that can't just be put to one side for the sake of somebody else's feelings. I would love to have no reason to feel threatened by men but I don't. I stopped putting mens' feelings ahead of my own safety a while ago and I don't intend to go back to how I was before.

That's just reminded me that early on in my criminal justice system days, there was a dentist convicted of sexual assault on a patient while she was sedated:

www.thejournal.co.uk/news/north-east-news/indecency-dentist-avoids-jail-4590089

(Obviously NADALT, before anyone leaps on that )

I know this has been said a lot on this thread, but males who want to perform intimate procedures on women who have expressly said they don’t want to have a male do the procedure shouldn’t be working in medicine or anywhere probably

It's a sign of a distorted culture that enables so many medics to abuse - often openly and, as we see on this thread, cheered on by the stupid. While I know it's NADALT, the number of people working in the profession with a disregard for the rights of patients to consent is truly terrifying. But I suppose that's why the medical profession is continually engulfed in repeated scandals and public enquiries.

Chaperones are there to protect the hcp too. I had a male dr insist on a chaperone for a breast exam once. I didn’t really care but he did.

I actually hate having a chaperone, someone stood there watching it all fucking creeps me out. I understand why it's needed, but prefer female HCP when possible because I really don't like having some stood there.

I was about 19 and naive and still a virgin and I was fucking terrified of what might happen next in a way I’ve never been with the most uncaring or oblivious female medic.

And yes, you would be terrified as would I because males have penises and when you said "what might happen next", you meant rape.

Unlike female medics, male medics can escalate to rape. You never know if the hand on your knee will escalate to rape. You never know if the finger in your vagina will escalate to rape. You never know if the forced kiss will escalate to rape.

A male can leave a female pregnant by raping her. A female cannot.

What kind of selfish sociopath thinks it's OK to force women to choose between the risk and fear of rape or getting much-needed healthcare?

I understand why it's needed, but prefer female HCP when possible because I really don't like having some stood there.

Female hcps use chaperones too though. I had a vaginal ultrasound done a few years ago. Female radiographer doing it. She brought a chaperone in - a man.

So can you clarify what you think then hooves? Is it that women should not be able to request a female for some procedures or that they should accept a male as a female where that male is trans identifying? I'm unclear.

You can refuse any HCP that you want.

Personally, I don't agree with your reasons but it's not up to me to tell you what you can and can't do.

Personally, I don't agree with your reasons

How do you know what my reasons are?

But since you do, why do you disagree with them?

Yes that's a really odd and evasive response.

God I hate the thought of having to have a male chaperone when I'm being treated by a woman anyway! Never had this. Had a female chaperone being treated by men but never when being treated by a woman. I've had three or 4 smear tests and two internal exams at the GUM clinic too- would have hated to be treated by a man for smears or for the GUM clinic visits. I was more accepting for the LLETZ treatment but it was horrible building up to it. The last GUM clinic visit I was having a very heavy period and bled absolutely everywhere, including onto my skirt. No way would I want a man dealing with that.

How do you know what my reasons are?

I meant I don't agree with refusing to have a transwoman hcp only because of their XY chromosomes. But if you choose to exclude hcps on that basis then that's your choice.

God I hate the thought of having to have a male chaperone when I'm being treated by a woman anyway! Never had this. Had a female chaperone being treated by men but never when being treated by a woman.

I've had a couple of our female GPS call for a chaperone before, but they've always been female receptionists (I don't agree with that tbh. I think chaperones should be HCP but that's another discussion). I've had other nurses and drs ask if I want a chaperone but this is the only time where I was just told that's what was happening and the chaperone was male. I found it very strange.

The dentist's excuse (OnlytheTit's post)

"I think it was simply because I thought it would be exciting."

So who cares about the patient, it's all about him and what he wants. Women aren''t people, they're just props. He should never be allowed to practice again.

I meant I don't agree with refusing to have a transwoman hcp only because of their XY chromosomes

That's some subtle twisting there.

What women object to is a female sexed person specifically asking for another female sexed hcp and being faced with a male sexed person claiming to be a female sexed person.

And you know that full well.

Your attempt to falsely smear women like this is surely beneath you and quite incomprehensible.

We don't all have to agree , we can all think what we like , as long as we respect other opinions and can find a way forward that does not discriminate unnecessarily and harmfully. Where tensions arise, a certain pragmatism is needed. That pragmatism should be focussed on minimising harm all around. It on re-education and bullying.

Not based on re-education and bullying that should say

I meant I don't agree with refusing to have a transwoman hcp only because of their XY chromosomes. But if you choose to exclude hcps on that basis then that's your choice.

I imagine many people are fed up with re explaining their traumatic experiences on this thread. I know I am.

I wonder if you (zebra) would be able to outline what your understanding of PTSD is?

But if you choose to exclude hcps on that basis then that's your choice.

If you require same sex HCPs then that's your right.

There. Fixed it for you. It's a right. It's in the NHS constitution. It's the accepted standard of care.

Very instructive that you cannot bring yourself to openly acknowledge this, let alone defend it. Very. Do keep going.

I'm not clear why you'd turn up to nitpick and argue 27 pages of a thread if your conclusion was 'Yes I think you have the right to ask for that'. I wonder if your position might be better summed up as 'i don't want you to have that right but the optics on saying that are shit'?

Just like when people turn up on cotton ceiling threads to say 'of course you have the right not to sleep with anyone you choose...But...'

The dentis was struck off, Strange. And is on the sex offender's register.

www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/dentist-struck-over-sex-assault-1528613

I meant I don't agree with refusing to have a transwoman hcp only because of their XY chromosomes. But if you choose to exclude hcps on that basis then that's your choice
I don't understand at all why you actually came here to argue over all these pages on this thread when you could have just said the above.
And I don't understand why you care what many many of us women want when it doesn't affect you in any way?

It's not as if you are a XY person in healthcare. So why do you care so much about what other women require when it's not costing you a dime, it's not impacting you to have whatever sex hcp you feel better with, it's simply not your problem.

If you require same sex HCPs then that's your right.

Hooray! There we go.