Only consenting to receiving medical treatment from a female is not acceptable

[Siameasy]

mobile.twitter.com/Docstockk/status/1198215833006362630

One NHS trust says it’s unacceptable for women to say they only consent to medical treatment from “natal females”. I find this completely outrageous and couldn’t find a thread on it already. Bloody hell!

I dunno, "you should allow males to insert things into your body when you don't want them to" doesn't really read as a very female typical argument to me at all.

ProdigalKittens

It sounds ooohhh, sort of rapey, doesn't it?

And if you give me OJ instead of coffee, I will be very sad. They do not taste or smell the same, no matter how much they identify as the other.

It does indeed sound very rapey. Us females tend to bristle at that sort of thing. Can't think why. Must be all the coffee pretending to be OJ we drink without even realizing it's not really OJ...

This thread is about refusing transgender hcps

NO. It’s about women declining to have male HCPs do intimate medical procedures to them. How the fuck is anyone questioning this? It is seriously gross.

I had a traumatic birth and was in hospital for ages. I had no issue with transguy nurses peering into and touching my vulva (checking stitches).

What about clownfish though?

Not the best advert for feminism I’ve seen

Isn’t it about equal rights, not just ‘our rights’

Feminism is the political movement for the liberation of women. It is absolutely about women's rights and no one else's, and most certainly not about the rights of the half of the population that continues to rape torture and abuse us for fun and profit.

You’ve been given coffee instead of orange juice more than you’ll ever know.

This was a popular trans advocate claim about ten years ago but it fell out of favor when women explained that not mentioning is not the same as not noticing, and that women do not generally challenge random males because we are afraid of what they might do.

There is a particularly strong female "no" coming from this thread and I have the impression that it's provoking a lot of anger in the worst kind of person.

I think some of the tone deafness/incoherence may be the result of pure rage.

That, indeed, and also the knowledge that this is a fairly indefensible issue for TRAs in the eyes of the wider public. The more they can smear and gaslight us who are getting this out there and raising awareness, the better.

but if you only want a specific gender to treat you, then you can pay privately.

Wow, if I pay privately can I be treated by an axigender femme?

I've always wanted to meet someone whose gender is "fern" irl!

I couldn’t care less about the gender of who does my smear. Just as I couldn’t care less if they are atheist, Muslim or whatever.

I care about their sex though. And many, many women do. People need to get over it.

I also care about the sex of HCPs. Doesn't matter why, but I do. Regarding trans-identifying males - if I genuinely can't tell they're male then I guess that's fine as I wouldn't read them as male so I wouldn't feel uncomfortable.

But that introduces the difficulty - who decides which trans-identifying males "pass" well enough to be regarded as women for these purposes? Bearing in mind the widely varying abilities people have for determining someones sex (I've seen this in action when out with my sister who is very pro "trans rights" and I pointed out a trans-identifying male and she said she had no idea how I could tell. It was weird. This person was very clearly male. Another time I was in a shop with my husband and afterwards asked if he'd noticed the trans-identifying male cashier, he hadn't...because whether someone is male or female doesn't matter to him.)

It's of course unworkable to only have "passing" trans-identifying males being counted as female. Therefore, imo, it should be the sex of the HCP which matters (ie their birth sex).

It's of course unworkable to only have "passing" trans-identifying males being counted as female. Therefore, imo, it should be the sex of the HCP which matters (ie their birth sex).

But then wouldn't you react to a transmale as thorough they were male? But their birth sex is female so according to your rules they would be fine to be working in these areas. Would women who don't want to, or can't be, treated by men be able to accept them as anything other than male?

I was wondering when you’d try to take us down that alley hearhooves
When transmen hcps start to insist that their feels are more important then their patients’ we can have that discussion. I won’t hold my breath.

TransMale is female sex.
So whilst in principle that should be ok, I am sure if a transmale managed to be sufficiently Male like in stature, smell etc they would trigger symptoms in some women. Surely as a human you have to accept that your descisons have an impact on your life? And surely as a human, especially a transgender human, you accept that you are not an island but are defined as much by your interactions with others?

Have we had the "woman can be abusers you know" line yet or did I miss that one?

I think we've had just about every square on the how dare women have boundaries bingo card, though I'm sure our how dare you stop it merely witnessing women saying no enrages me I am very very angry but am attempting to disguise it as logical debate friends will find a few more squares to add. Can't be arsed engaging with it, personally

Oh yes MIdge we had a personal anecdote about being watched getting undressed by a female hcp so preferring males because a man would never do such a thing.

Do we need a thread like the "it never happens" that just lists all the whataboutarries? It could be called a handy checklist for male rights activists?

So transmen, woman also do..., DSD and clownfish, Sweden ,

I have seen them so often I am surprised I can't remember them all , but am in a hurry this morning

Have they brought up the Titanic yet? Going for that TRA/MRA crossover market.

Add Dr Who to the list...

Perhaps this might be useful:

janeclarejones.com/2019/11/25/the-tra-trope-almanac/

Oh yes MIdge we had a personal anecdote about being watched getting undressed by a female hcp so preferring males because a man would never do such a thing.

Ridicule me if you like, but it was true. Another poster also said they were examined by a Dr and a nurse and the nurse made them feel uncomfortable too.

Sorry if it doesn't fit your narrative. And I didn't say that a man doing the same wouldn't make me feel more comfortable I said, in my experience, male hcps are careful not to do things like that. They are more aware of the boundaries. It feels like.some female hcps take the attitude of it doesn't matter because I'm female.

Female HCP doesn't equal good HCP. Read the ante/post natal care thread - the posts on there are awful and the treatment they are talking about is from female midwives. I've had awful treatment from midwives, they couldn't have been any less understanding of a female experience if they'd tried so how did having female hcps serve me well during my 2 births?

Perfect Scrinshaw

Pair it with medium.com/4th-wave-feminism/the-rules-of-misogyny-bca9a6e111e7

Sorry Scrimshaw didn't put my goggles on.

Just for the record, I support your right to request whichever HCP you want.

I just find it illogical to say that you want only hcps who were born female to care for you because that does include transmen who, in lots of cases, pass very well as men. Yet to bring that up is apparently playing tra bingo. No.it isn't, it's highlighting a very large flaw in your argument.

Maya's and Harry's cases could be vital. That stating biological fact is not an act of hate, it's just fact. And the right to belief: to not be compelled to perform a belief you do not share.

This. It really is that simple.