Only consenting to receiving medical treatment from a female is not acceptable

[Siameasy]

mobile.twitter.com/Docstockk/status/1198215833006362630

One NHS trust says it’s unacceptable for women to say they only consent to medical treatment from “natal females”. I find this completely outrageous and couldn’t find a thread on it already. Bloody hell!

Got I have an elderly male relative who refuses to see his female dentist for very chauvinistic reasons.

But a transgender mtf identifies as a woman. So you’re saying ‘only if born with a uterus’ woman.

What if, in 20, 30, 100 years, this view is taken as discriminatory as the previous views of women in medicine, the armed forces, banking.....

You’ll be the ones saying ‘but women can’t do this because....’

I don't much care how the person giving me a smear identifies. They can identify as a geranium for all I care - if they were not born with a vagina I don't want them sticking a speculum up mine.

If I exercise my legal right to request a female HCP, I want it to be an actual female who appears. Not a man in the throes of an identity crisis. It’s not my job to make him feel better about himself. It’s the NHS’s job to make me better, and one of the ways they can do that is to respect my sex-based rights.

Thanks @TheProdigalKittensReturn (love the name, I had a prodigal then unprodigal cat a couple of years ago).

So, we’re happy to accept a ‘female’ hcp if she was born F,
but if the hcp feels she was born into a male body but feels female (and possibly even looks v female - ( no, this isn’t a qualifier,I’m just wondering how you’d know - future or currently)

How is this currently policed?

But a transgender mtf identifies as a woman

That’s nice for them. I only deal in reality.

How it is policed is that women can tell

I mean, if people can't tell by looking I don't know what to tell them other than possibly "better get to Specsavers".

For clarity, I don't want to be seen by somebody who was born with a penis regardless of how they feel. It's very simple.

Reminds me of the views a few years ago that women weren’t rational because periods.

Are we saying born ‘female’ is ‘real female’ and anything otherwise is not ‘real’?

What about hermaphroditism, where the whole genome has become intertwined?

I feel these in depth discussions define us as females - we'reabke to debate without weapons, because it’s about perceptions, not forcing someone to agree.

I respect anyone’s wish to be treated by only born female ‘uterus havers ‘(horrible, clinical, masculine phrase).

Please respect my wish to be treated by the best qualified for the job, immaterial of race, gender, sexual orientation, disability, religion or whether they’re pregnant or not.

When my grandmother required intimate care and suffering from dementia, my brother, mother and I ensured that this was given by a female HCP.

Most sons, brothers, fathers, husbands don't want men providing intimate care to the women in their lives either.

Hear do you think female doctors aren’t as competent as men? You’re very keen to hammer home the message you don’t care about sex just that you’re treated by the best person. Lots of you in there, because quite frankly that’s all you send to care about. Me, myself and I ..... ad infinitum.

Nope, where have I said that? I've said I want to choose the most qualified person to look after me, regardless of sex. That might be a female Dr, but it might be a male Dr. I don't see why I should have to exclude all of the male drs just because some women don't want a male Dr looking after them.

Maybe you're fortunate enough to not need frequent healthcare and so have the luxury of being able to choose female hcps. Some of us are only too aware of what we owe drs and other healthcare staff and take a more pragmatic approach to it. It's as much my right to say I don't care who treats me, so long as they are suitably qualified as it is yours to say I only want these people caring for me.

I feel these in depth discussions define us as females
I feel this is whataboutery and derailing/merailing

Please respect my wish to be treated by the best qualified for the job, immaterial of race, gender, sexual orientation, disability, religion or whether they’re pregnant or not.

Absolutely sums up my view too.

Are we saying born ‘female’ is ‘real female’ and anything otherwise is not ‘real

Yes that is exactly what we’re saying

or whether they’re pregnant or not

I literally LOLed at this. Indeed, when considering whether or not a particular medical practitioner is right for me I often find myself giving them a beady eyed stare and asking "pray tell, are you pregnant?"

(Unsure as to whether that's meant to mean that I agree or don't agree to them treating me.)

Why are you so angry Hooves at some women requesting the right to a female HCP. What's the problem?

I'm not angry. I'm fed up with people having a go at me and accusing me of derailing for simply responding to points that other posters are making. If anyone is derailing surely it's the person that introduces the point in the first place.

I'm angry at posters suggesting that my choices should be reduced because they want to limit their own choices. Stipulate whatever you want to, for yourself, but don't make me have to join you.

Oh ffs.

If I'm asked if I want a coffee or an orange juice, and I ask for an orange juice and someone brings me a coffee, I'm going to be a bit surprised. If they say no, no really, it is in fact an orange juice, I'm going to be even more surprised and quite concerned.

If I say "Look, thanks but I can't drink coffee, it makes me ill - I asked specifically for an orange juice", it won't help to tell me that

• I ought to be lucky I get any drink at all
• Coffee is actually better than orange juice
• There's a spectrum of drinks and it's so hard to separate orange juice and coffee that no one can tell the difference
• Your allergy is all in your head and you need to get over it
• The coffee will be really upset and traumatised if I don't agree it's an orange juice and drink it

I'm going to wonder what on earth is going on.

Because it seems that I can either go along with agreeing that yes, yes look at this excellent orange juice and downing it - with all the negative impacts that will have on me, let's say a full allergic reaction - or I can't have a drink at all and ought to be ashamed of myself.

Except we're not talking even about this issue with something as mild as a drink. We're talking about life saving intimate medical care and it being perfectly normal and every day to provide orange juice when someone asks specifically for orange juice. Not handing them coffee and a lot of pressure.

It’s so hard to tell whether pp are being deliberately obtuse ...

I’m sure born female doctors are as capable as born male doctors - or nurses, or HCPs, or some support roles, and equally vice versa.

Thus MY choice. And IF the only choice is a mtf hcp, who cares as long as they know their stuff and treat me with the same respect.

This thread is about refusing transgender HCPs. As in refusing to accept transgender as the gender they feel they are.

None of you have any idea of what birth gender you’ve been treated by to date. It isn’t announced. And sometimes it isn’t obvious.

We accept equality unless it’s not our own definition. Splendid.

Let me get this straight - posters who agree with you can post any number of personal anecdotes and that's fine. Anyone who disagrees and who.posts an anecdote is derailing/merailing? Is that correct?

Who made these rules then? Who decided that this board can only host one type of feminism?

No such thing as birth gender bunny

Re the Belgians - my gynaecologist did not offer an anaesthetic but suggested I take paracetamol if I was squeamish about pain before coming in. A friend, who is a pharmacologist, kindly told me what cocktail of paracetamol and ibuprofen to take so it was painless.

(On a side note, Mirena led to massive hair loss which my previous gyn did not believe was possible).

Having said that all my gynaecologists have been male. I prefer someone neutral and clinical rather than a cheerleader. Worked to our advantage when I gave birth and everything that could possibly go wrong went wrong while our gyn kept his cool.

But I fully endorse having the choice and that choice being respected.

As in refusing to accept transgender as the gender they feel they are.

Someone's subjective feelings of gender does not change their biological sex.

If a patient asks for a specifically same sex hcp this should not be a case of 'well we'll send someone NOT of that sex and hopefully you won't realise'.

Can you really not see what's wrong with that? People don't ask for same sex hcps for giggles. They have reasons.

Bunny
What about hermaphroditism, where the whole genome has become intertwined?
I don't want to derail this thread but this is important. Intersex people are being used as an example of sex being on a spectrum, people with an intersex condition, they are not a third sex, they are either male or female.
Hopefully someone more knowledgeable than me can add to this.