Only consenting to receiving medical treatment from a female is not acceptable

[Siameasy]

mobile.twitter.com/Docstockk/status/1198215833006362630

One NHS trust says it’s unacceptable for women to say they only consent to medical treatment from “natal females”. I find this completely outrageous and couldn’t find a thread on it already. Bloody hell!

If that is what the NHS doing then I dont know how you counter it.

This isn't an advice request thread. It's a thread talking about the systemic erosion of womens' boundaries and an assault on our right to ask for same-sex healthcare providers. No shit you don't know how to counter it! The entire point is that it can't be countered on an individual level, it's a systemic issue and it's symptomatic of even worse problems.

Seriously. Can whoever lit the twat signal turn it off now please?

To all you strange ploppy ploppers plopping onto the thread, DO fuck off loves. Once again for those at the back

MY CONSENT IS NOT YOURS TO GIVE AWAY

Not because NHS resources. Not because “bigot!”. Not because omg you aren’t personally bothered so how could anyone else be.

It. Is. ALWAYS. OK. For. Women. To. Say. No.

I have to say that personally don't care at all who sticks a hand up my fanny, as long as they wash it first - or at least run it briefly under the tap

Ooh look at Lady Muck all la di da with the hand-washing requirement. You’ll be expecting them to trim their nails and warm their hands up a bit next. It’s spit on palms and rub ‘em together round here like it or lump it.

I've never had a male Dr expect me to undress in front of them for example.

I've never had a female doctor do that either. Do you find this happens quite a lot with female doctors?

And I know that I could have complained but it felt wrong to complain because I anticipated the attitude being "well she's female so it's fine" but it didn't feel fine and was at complete odds with anything I've ever experienced.

So you didn't bother to complain because you thought you knew what they'd say. If the HCP was behaving inappropriately and they got a lot of complaints something might be done. If nobody complains they just carry on. I nearly always complain about things I find unacceptable. Sometimes I'm dismissed, sometimes they follow up. The only thing you can be certain of is that if you never complain nothing will be done.

Och I think it’s kids the ploppers on a wind up tbh

Well I hope it is cos it makes them look like first class idiots if they actually believed and were adults with what has been written on this thread

@Michelleoftheresistance I’m not anti-faith or anti-minority! I disagree with any intolerant views of anyone, regardless of their background or what they ascribe it to.

If a doctor wants to study for years, incur massive debts and pretend to be female to have a peep at my monkey, whatevs. But I don’t think going through that level of judgement, ridicule and discrimination is the motivator for the majority of transgender people. Do we need to vet gay born-female lesbian HCPs out of intimate examinations too? Going by this logic they will find it equally titillating, no? (And no, I do not believe that).

The reasoned arguments are lost when words are exaggerated or twisted. I gave my view. I respect others’. I don’t have to agree with them.

Going by this logic

What logic? You're sounding a bit homophobic bunny.

Is this thread being flagged up as a misogynist bingo thread on some MRA site? Seriously you creepy fuckers, piss off with your rapey, lesbophobic bollocks.

FFS, it's not about 'peeping at my monkey' or anything sexual! It's about consent to have intimate medical care performed by a person who is the opposite sex!

A+ for minimising women's right to consent and street cred 'whatevs'. Are you 14?

Lesbians do not present a particular risk to women. Lesbians being women tend not to trigger panic attacks /ptsd symptoms in women who have been subjected to violence,

All biological males present similar risk of both.

Men do go to extreme lengths to get access to vulnerable people. Look at the number of priests and vicars currently being investigated. They spend years creating their image of an Intelligent, caring, wouldn't hurt a fly man

But hey, facts eh?

Ah.. sorry, you weren't saying that. Getting too confused too easily today

I've never had a female doctor do that either. Do you find this happens quite a lot with female doctors?

No, as I said, I've not experienced it before which is why I was so taken aback.

Have had 1 Dr ask if I wanted her to leave the room, which again, I felt uncomfortable about. I'd rather she just left than make me feel awkward about saying "yes I do" but never had anyone just stand there, and with no screens or anything.

So you didn't bother to complain because you thought you knew what they'd say. If the HCP was behaving inappropriately and they got a lot of complaints something might be done. If nobody complains they just carry on. I nearly always complain about things I find unacceptable. Sometimes I'm dismissed, sometimes they follow up. The only thing you can be certain of is that if you never complain nothing will be done.

I do usually complain for precisely the reasons that you say but this incident affected me in a different way. I was really questioning whether it was ok or not. It didn't feel ok to me at all and had it been a male HCP I would have said something there and then but I really felt like I was wrong to say anything because she was a woman and so I should have been ok with it.

I don't think Bunny understands what is being argued here.

And I'm sure this isn't a new experience for Bunny.

If a doctor wants to study for years, incur massive debts and pretend to be female to have a peep at my monkey, whatevs. But I don’t think going through that level of judgement, ridicule and discrimination is the motivator for the majority of transgender people. Do we need to vet gay born-female lesbian HCPs out of intimate examinations too? Going by this logic they will find it equally titillating, no? (And no, I do not believe that).

It's all about the transwomen's feelings, isn't it? A complete failure to process that women's feelings matter or even exist, despite 15 pages discussing how women are impacted by this.

Not at all, @oldcrone - I am neither interested or affected by anyone’s faith, ethnicity, sexual orientation, gender, not gender, what fucking ever.

If you’re nice to me and others you’re ok in my book. If you’re not, well, you’re not.

My point was is why on earth should any hcp be interested in what you’ve got! I had infertility for 5 years, several miscarriages and 2 IVFs. At one point I think every hcp in Lincolnshire had seen my foo! My driver was having a baby, and the people treating me had the knowledge I needed. I afford transgender people the same as I do hetero, gay, any of the above: it doesn’t affect how I interact - why should it? We’re all just people, trying to survive in a world inhabited by the likes of Johnson, Trump and Putin. They’re doing a great job inciting hate, I’m just keeping my head above water.

pretend to be female to have a peep at my monkey

It's not just "having a peep", women have been raped by male HCPs. PIV rape causes unwanted pregnancy, no female can inflict that on another female so a female HCP's sexual orientation is irrelevant.

For all those stigmatizing the women who want same sex HCPs to perform intimate procedures as bigots, transphobes, pearl-clutchers, profligate wasters of NHS time and resources - we aren’t asking for anything other than what has always been available to us up to now. We aren’t the ones who have moved the goalposts, we are not asking for any special treatment. We have always had the option of requesting same sex HCPs for intimate procedures. Always. With no questions asked. Why is it suddenly a problem? Why?

@Kantastic

I only offered my own view. You are entitled to yours. We don’t agree,and that’s ok. I haven’t said ‘I think you’re all wrong and nasty because you don’t agree with me’. I’ve just elaborated my own view.

I’m assuming tolerance goes all ways?

Men can want to be doctors to help people whilst also being abusive tossers as well. That’s why it’s hard to spot who is ok and who isn’t.

Wow. The stupid is strong in this one...

So, hang on. BSUH's guidance heavily thanks one Rowan Davis, of MindOut Brighton.

www.bsuh.nhs.uk/wp-content/uploads/sites/5/2019/10/Trans-Guidelines-August-2019.pdf
p1 6Thank you to Rowan Davis of MindOut Brighton for providing comprehensive input and feedback to inform this update, as well as to Stonewall for reviewing and suggesting improvements

Rowan Davis, the trans advocacy worker at MindOut, a Brighton mental health service run by and for lesbians, gay, bisexual, trans, and queer people.

I thought I recognised that name (waves to Rowan - you've been namechecked on Mumsnet before, haven't you Rowan. For your 'how to deal with TERFs slideshow to NUS Women 18, hmm?)

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3222263-Slide-show-on-How-to-Deal-with-TERFs
The slide show has been removed, but you can get a sense of its content from this thread from last year.

Here's Rowan

I'd rather not get a strike, so am posting much of this without further comment!

This looks very much like the same Rowan. Who is now working with Brighton Hospital to inform them as to how women like Clare B Dimyon will be dealt with, should she write a letter that Rowan doesn't like.

So I see Rowan's still 'dealing with TERFs', just in a more formal capacity now.

Well done Rowan.

If you happen to read this thread, and listen to many of the women on it, I hope you're very proud.

Ok other people need a certain amount of bodily autonomy to keep their heads above the water
Other people get very anxious, frightened, unable to cope if expected to allow a man to be prodding and poking around even if it's for their own good. So help others also keep their heads above the water.

For those posters lacking in empathy, insight and respect for women's boundaries - a reminder that you are insisting that women must accept intimate medical procedures from each of these men:

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/10/09/gp-molested-25-female-patients-failed-report-decades-doctor/
metro.co.uk/2019/09/09/doctor-struck-off-secretly-taking-19000-photos-videos-female-patients-10711941/
metro.co.uk/2019/09/09/doctor-struck-off-secretly-taking-19000-photos-videos-female-patients-10711941/
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-30210272
www.medpagetoday.com/publichealthpolicy/ethics/77605

Do we need to vet gay born-female lesbian HCPs out of intimate examinations too

Oh good lord. Where to start?

The NHS rightly allows people to request a HCP of the same sex as them, as it is generally agreed that this is a reasonable expectation in terms of dignity, privacy and safety.

This is now being undermined by a new requirement that people who do this may be compelled to accept someone not of the same sex of them, but who believes that their gender identity overrides this request, and a patient who disagrees ought to be re-educated rather than accommodated.

We don’t have provision to request by race or sexuality, and it is screamingly racist and lesbophobic to make that comparison.

Bloody hell. It’s not hard.

Sorry for the duplicate. Meant to include this qualified male medical practitioner:
www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/doctor-secretly-filmed-female-patients-5668538