Only consenting to receiving medical treatment from a female is not acceptable

[Siameasy]

mobile.twitter.com/Docstockk/status/1198215833006362630

One NHS trust says it’s unacceptable for women to say they only consent to medical treatment from “natal females”. I find this completely outrageous and couldn’t find a thread on it already. Bloody hell!

Misogynists get very, very angry when women say "no."

There is a particularly strong female "no" coming from this thread and I have the impression that it's provoking a lot of anger in the worst kind of person.

I think some of the tone deafness/incoherence may be the result of pure rage. No arguments because their reasoning is currently at toddler-tantrum level.

But always interesting because of the lurkers.

For Christ sakes. STOP with the egregious, FALSE analogies to racism. STOP.

Brown and black women in my family and community want female HCPs to do their smears more than white women I know. Having more melanin in your skin is NOT akin to being the same/opposite sex.

STOP falsely invoking racism in a disgusting attempt to shame women into validating your gender.

"You won't let a man touch you intimately without consent? Racist!"

It's what I expect from the drive by loons these days, but still, always helpful for lurkers to have a new WTF to help them along.

I definitely think this is a factor. Being turned loose to play outdoors with my younger sister in the summer holidays at around 8 or 9, I was certainly aware of the need to steer clear of “flashers’ corner” in our local park - the other kids (also unsupervised) shared the knowledge around & made sure everyone knew if one of the regulars was in the vicinity. I can’t imagine many kids nowadays having that level of awareness at such a young age.

Yes and this is a problem because today’s young people will be the policy makers and whenever I’ve had to explain on social media why females require same sex provision it’s always to other females in their 20s.

(sorry my last comment was in response to some casual racist misogyny upthread, not recent posters, what is with this thread!?)

If you have an issue with women requesting female HCPs that is your problem, not theirs.

I think these kinds of shouty “shut up, women!” plop posts are very helpful, actually.

1. People who haven’t been exposed to this ideology and are coming here for the first time to try to understand the conflict get quite the eye-opener.

2. They alert us to the most resonant problems with gender ideology. That is, when gender activists plop in here to shout at us to shut up about sexual trauma survivors being called discriminatory for preferring female HCPs, it is because they know that the more sunshine this example gets, the fewer members of the general public will be happy to nod along with the policy changes advocated by genderists. Posts about the destruction of child safeguarding protocols get similar pile-ons. So, pullllllllll.

Posts about the destruction of child safeguarding protocols get similar pile-ons.

I was trying to think what other posts I'd seen this on! The vibe of a lot of shouty angry people plopping in to call women selfish for having boundaries feels very familiar.

The angle being used for the guilt trip is interesting. Not "think of the poor transwoman HCP" which they've obviously used in their training materials, but "think of the poor overstretched NHS." I agree that it's pointing to a weakness.

And comparing it to racism Kantastic because I suppose they think it’ll tug at the heartstrings
Not gonna work

The NHS does not segregate by race. Quite rightly. There are no blacks only wards.

The NHS does segregate by sex though. That's for reasons of safety and dignity. Both men and women generally prefer not to be in a vulnerable state around the opposite sex. Men as a class are a danger to women as a class. Hardly anybody argues that all wards and services should be mixed sex. There is wide social and cultural agreement that single sex wards and same sex clinicians are best for safety and dignity.

The comparison between having single sex wards and there being racism is not a valid argument.

A male might honestly believe he is a woman. He might feel awful if anyone invalidates his belief. These two facts do not mean that all the women in the women's ward have to accept his presence as if he were biologically female. It is sad that he is hurt at having his beliefs invalidated by not being on the women's ward, however, this is not the fault of the women nor is it their problem to solve for him.

If you have ‘religious’ issues or anything else you have the option to go private and choose which doctor/specialist you see. If not shut up.

Black and brown women are often the poorest and most deprived in the UK and cannot afford to go private. They are also the most likely to have experienced FGM and the most likely to have religious or cultural objections to male HCPs.

leckford's financial privilege is visible from space.

The angle being used for the guilt trip is interesting. Not "think of the poor transwoman HCP" which they've obviously used in their training materials, but "think of the poor overstretched NHS." I agree that it's pointing to a weakness.

Fascinating observation! And curious because those kind of appeals do appear on other threads. Do you think the NHS angle is calculated because it's in people's minds with the election? It will be interesting to see if, now you've noted their absence, we do get some posts appealing to the "poor transwoman HCP". I agree that these misogynist posts are there for a reason. They're so staggeringly offensive and make scant attempt to justify their position or prove they've understood ours. Horrible though they are to read, I'm certain they only help our cause in the long run.

Not "think of the poor transwoman HCP"

I suspect it's not pulled out because it's glaring obviously indefensible.

If it's all about 'we need to care about people's feelings and choices and authentic selves' then you're straight into the obvious pit that you can't insist that feelings matter for trans people but at the same time don't matter at all for women. You also can't shout the word inclusion while vigorously discriminating against multiple protected groups.

Well you can, but you'll look a twit.

I'm not sure if it's been referenced already on this thread, but for those thinking this is just a hypothetical situation:

2017 NHS apologises to woman who had specifically requested a female nurse for her smear test

A woman who requested a female NHS nurse to perform her cervical smear test was “embarrassed and distressed” after a person with stubble and a deep voice summoned her for the intimate procedure.

When the patient pointed out the mistake, the nurse replied: “My gender is not male. I’m a transsexual.”

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/the-female-nhs-nurse-i-asked-for-came-with-stubble-83rq9p0gg

For fairness of views, here's the same news reported in pink news
www.pinknews.co.uk/2017/12/31/nhs-apologises-for-allocating-trans-nurse-for-smear-test/

This is not just hypothetical musings. It's already happened. Hence Clare's valid letter regarding mammograms.

Possibly controversial, but if you only want a specific gender to treat you, then you can pay privately. The NHS is under pressure enough without people, for whatever reason, specifying how they want their treatment

Really don't care about the gender of the person treating me

I really do care about the sex of the person in some situations

I really don't see why I, as a victim of sexual abuse, should not be allowed that basic dignity under the NHS. Why are only rich people to be allowed dignity and freedom from fear and trauma?

Possibly controversial, but if you only want a specific gender to treat you, then you can pay privately.

FFS, nobody wants a specific gender treating them, they want the right to have someone of the same sex.

What is gender Fleming ?

"You won't let a man touch you intimately without consent? Racist!"

One would hope even the weekend mods would manage the savvy to see through that one....

... although, we are thoroughly in the Upside Down, so you never know.

It might help if you'd read the thread, CFlemingSmith. Assume you're not a woman or you'd know that being able to have a HCP of the same sex (no one's talking about gender) for non-urgent intimate care has been NHS policy for many many years.

Like I said, controversial opinion.
But I feel if you are seeking medicinal treatment on the NHS, you can have the best person at that time available, but you can't start specifying anything else.
All I would worry about is "are they qualified for the job" and if they are, then quite frankly I don't give a damn about anything else.
I can appreciate that not everything thinks like that though

What’s gender ?

Again

And yes I am I woman. But it has never even crossed my mind for any intimate or any medical treatment who I am seeing and whether it bothers me, it only concerns me whether they're qualified

CFlemingSmith

You couldn't even understand what people are asking, you're not being controversial you are being stupid.

?