Only consenting to receiving medical treatment from a female is not acceptable

[Siameasy]

mobile.twitter.com/Docstockk/status/1198215833006362630

One NHS trust says it’s unacceptable for women to say they only consent to medical treatment from “natal females”. I find this completely outrageous and couldn’t find a thread on it already. Bloody hell!

I mean, seriously? How morally bankrupt, lacking in imagination, empathy and any sense of care or concern for your fellow human beings do you have to be?

Tbf, it’s only women they feel like this about. Limitless compassion and empathy for men in dresses playing at being female.

it would be appropriate to re-iterate that the ward is indeed female and that there are no men present
This is scarey. It reminds me of when women used to be put in psych hospitals for transgressing the female 'norm'

The NHS is mandating that a person's trans belief system that men can be women if they say so, overrides everyone else's belief systems including religious ones and objective reality. The NHS should not be allowed to force what is effectively a religious belief on their patients.

I've been in hospital twice recently. If someone had tried that gaslighting bullshit on me I'd have made a hell of a fuss. It's outrageous to sneak in mixed sex wards in such a manner.

Here's hoping that Maya Forstater's case clarifies the position of us gender atheists.

The problem here is patients not playing along and agreeing 2+2=5. I am keeping everything crossed that Maya’s tribunal goes the right way, as equality law protects you from having to manifest a belief you don’t share

Yes. The real life consequences of Maya’s case (if it succeeds) are huge. It’ll throw a great big spanner in the works and give women the right to challenge this nonsense without the fear of being punished for speaking out.

Even if it were to be proven that gender exists it would be irrelevant to me in a medical context

True, even if there were such a thing it would be irrelevant. And even if there were such a thing I still wouldn't share a 'gender identity' with XY trans people because I don't have a 'gender identity'. They are neither the same sex nor the same, completely irrelevant and unsubstantiated, 'gender identity' as me. I still do not consent to any intimate care or exam being administered by them and still consider it a sexual offense against me to do anything other than fully accept my lack of consent without comment.

If you have ‘religious’ issues or anything else you have the option to go private and choose which doctor/specialist you see. If not shut up

Thank you for this excellent demonstration of the total lack of any actual, justified argument, the lack self awareness, the lack of basic social awareness, the not just lack of consideration or care for anyone else but the arrogant contempt for anyone thwarting them, all of which shows the sheer childishness endemic to those promoting this. My four year old reasons like this when overtired, it's about that level.

I greatly look forward to this 'if "religious" go private', and 'just shut up' being put to a judge, God knows this week we've seen plenty of evidence of that kind of pouty nonsense being offered as legal argument.

Jesus, this thread is scary. It shows yet again how the concept of patient led care is apparently only for men whilst women just need to shut up and listen to their betters.

For decades we've been ignored in maternity care because apparently the only important thing is the health of the baby and us women are collateral damage. Now we're being told our comfort and even access to health care is secondary to validating belief in gender identity. And this is progress?

I am keeping everything crossed that Maya’s tribunal goes the right way, as equality law protects you from having to manifest a belief you don’t share

This also needs to go to court, and asap before it gets any further embedded. There is no way this can stand up to proper scrutiny, it stamps all over sex based rights, faith based rights, the NHS's own policy, in favour of something that isn't a legal right in any way. The NHS are mindlessly repeating the words of a political lobby who make shit up. They're as culpable for that as the police are.

Molten Have you seen the current thread on postnatal care? Some truly awful accounts from on there about how women are treated.

I compared my own post twin C section treatment with that of my father's post hernia treatment. Both abdominal surgeries.

He was treated like a king and able to fully relax in hospital, while I was scolded for asking for support after being in too much agony to pick up either baby for feeds/nappy changes.

If you have ‘religious’ issues or anything else you have the option to go private and choose which doctor/specialist you see. If not shut up

@leckford Why do you think a trans belief system wins in a competition between beliefs?

Let's say a male HCP believes himself to be a woman. A female patient believes in being fully clothed in the presence of males. How do you choose whose beliefs are allowed to be a consideration in care giving?

Why should the religious female have to pay for private care because she does not share the man's beliefs when the NHS has told her she is allowed to choose to have a female clinician?

Similarly in a ward situation. Sure there are male patients who believe they are women but why does their belief system get to hold more sway than the belief systems of the female patients on the ward? How do you choose the "winner"?

The attitude from some posters on here towards women are truly revolting, they obviously view women as some inferior sub species with all this be grateful for the scraps you are thrown, after all you are merely women bollocks. It's deplorable that people that hold those views walk amongst us, but equally enlightening as to just how far they will go to ensure women are forced to be subservient to men and their wants and wishes.

I'm extremely atheist. But I'd never visit a religious discussion group to exercise philosophical arguments for why I don't believe God exists.

Can't get over the number of posters who think it's appropriate to disregard trauma caused by men, on a thread of women talking about harrowing experiences, on a FEMINIST discussion board.

What can they possibly think they bring to the discussion anyway? We live in a patriarchy, we're well aware that many people don't see women as fully human. Do they honestly think we'd forgotten and needed reminding?

HandsOffMyRights I haven't seen the latest one but sadly it doesn't surprise me. Sorry to hear of your experience, it echoes that of other women I've spoken to but with twins it is even more shocking.

Post natal care has long been appalling, no wonder we have such high rates of PND when women are ignored, told to suck up pain and exhaustion and get on with it. I first joined MN when they were campaigning against Bounty, can you imagine any other group of vulnerable patients being treated as a marketing opportunity?!

And what RedDogs said it shows how we're seen as entitled for asking for decent medical care when we're supposed to be grateful for scraps. And shame on the women on here trying to guilt us into putting up with it.

I'm struggling to follow this on twitter. I know the letter referenced is from Clare Dimyon. Did the NHS trust copy it from her when she used it at a mammogram appointment? Or did they find it on the internet?

And shame on the women on here trying to guilt us into putting up with it.
There are a few women who have swallowed the kool-aid and are genuinely just misguided but I sincerely doubt those responsible for the more egregious posts here are women.

This genuinely reminds me of the stories my DM told me about patients only wanting to see a white doctor. It is discrimination pure and simple. Sure people would have dug out a few examples of misconduct by non-white doctors to justify this back then too!

If you have a problem with seeing a male dr, you are the problem not them!

Jane read the thread.

And no, it's not discrimination. The Equality Act protects exemptions so that women do not have to pretend that biological males are females when asked to get their clothes off to be intimately touched.

You have to have several screws loose to think this is even vaguely ok.

Apologies for not RTFT but surely we should be able to challenge these NHS policies legally. I’m not a solicitor but it must be against the Equality Act to discriminate against women like this. Is there a way to challenge it? Some legal advice would be really helpful.

Isn't the total lack of any coherent argument - or engagement with the issues - baffling here in these dump and run silly posts?

It's like there is nothing but shouting buzzwords and phrases. No deeper thought, no actual engagement, nothing.

I totally agree Quantum.

There are posts on here so time deaf that I think they are being placed in order to goad deliberately. Probably in the knowledge that more senior staff aren't around at weekends and the mods tend to be overstretched.

Jane women have always been able to ask for female healthcare providers. Especially for intimate care.
I was in hospital a few years ago for a repair to a birth injury. All the nurses were female and made me feel comfortable in a female only ward. I would not have wanted a male nurse to insert my catheters or painkilling suppository in that situation. We should be able to say which people can enter/put things in our bodies.

Isn't the total lack of any coherent argument - or engagement with the issues - baffling here in these dump and run silly posts?

If by baffling you mean 'entirely predictable from supporters of an ideology that doesn't not stand up to the merest hint of scrutiny because there is precisely zero credible evidence to support it' then yes, baffling indeed

If by baffling you mean 'entirely predictable from supporters of an ideology that doesn't not stand up to the merest hint of scrutiny because there is precisely zero credible evidence to support it' then yes, baffling indeed

I agree. I suppose 'baffling' because I still somehow expect there to be actual reasons why people believe in this lunacy, or at least some awareness that posting this kind of tone deaf stuff is a PR disaster. It's hard to believe this kind of self sabotage is for real.

One hell of a helpful documenting exercise though. As I say, I so look forward to this batshittery being said to a judge.

How many more misogynists are expected to rock up to tell women to put up and shut up?