Only consenting to receiving medical treatment from a female is not acceptable

[Siameasy]

mobile.twitter.com/Docstockk/status/1198215833006362630

One NHS trust says it’s unacceptable for women to say they only consent to medical treatment from “natal females”. I find this completely outrageous and couldn’t find a thread on it already. Bloody hell!

If you have ‘religious’ issues or anything else you have the option to go private and choose which doctor/specialist you see. If not shut up

Someone’s looking for screenshots because I can’t believe anyone would really have their head stuck so far up their own arse to post that comment.

Someone is also rather nicely insulated from most people's economic realities if they think everyone has the option to go private.

but if you do have issues with past sexual abuse etc you can certainly ask for them to be considered by having a third or even fourth person in the room

Why would anyone post shit like this?

What sort of person can read this (from a poster who has opened up about her history of CSE)

I repeat, "I was sexually assaulted aged eight and my vagina clamps shut if a male HCP tries to examine me". The smear examination is impossible without a female HCP.

and respond only a handful of posts later, with this:

If you have ‘religious’ issues or anything else you have the option to go private and choose which doctor/specialist you see. If not shut up ?

I mean, seriously? How morally bankrupt, lacking in imagination, empathy and any sense of care or concern for your fellow human beings do you have to be?

What is wrong with some people?

For the people wittering on about chaperones being the answer:

1. if the NHS is in such crisis, how can it possibly be an efficient use of staff to have to drag someone else into the examination room instead of simply adhering to the patient’s request to have an HCP of their preferred sex - therefore only requiring one member of staff - to carry out the appointment?

2. Do you understand that in this bright new world where the NHS has done the wokey-cokey and turned (reality) around, that you will not be allowed to request a chaperone when the 6’3” bearded bloke in a nurse’s dress turns up to perform your mammogram or smear for which you specifically requested a female HCP, because so far as the NHS is concerned they are a woman because they say they are a woman so no chaperone needed, you horrible transphobe?

Incidentally, yes the men in my family do prefer male practitioners. My DDad for prostate exams and my DS for ongoing urinary tract problems.

General care, my DDad doesn't care. However, like a PP's DD upthread, my DS feels more comfortable round a same sex practitioner and finds them easier to talk to. (Though mostly for routine stuff we do end up going to our female GP - but anything urinary tract related I do ask to see one of the male GPs).

it would be appropriate to re-iterate that the ward is is indeed female and that there are no men present

It's brainwashing. I know 1984 gets mentioned a lot (with good reason) but this is clearly straight out the book.

Do not believe your own eyes and what you know to be true. Winston had wrote in his diary that freedom was been able to say the truth 2+2 = 4, so he is asked how many fingers his torturer is holding up, Winston see 4 fingers and says 4. That is wrong it is 5 because the party says so. Winston is tortured until he says 5, but that is not good enough, because Winston needs to believe it is 5 and not the 4 that he sees.

Her duty of care extends to protect people from harrassment and should the woman continue to make demands about the removal of the transgender patient and be vocal in the ward about it would be appropriate to remind her of this
Ultimately it may be the complainant who is required to be removed

The patient may not be in a torture chamber, but her punishment and or pat on the back, comes down to, believe what you are told not what you know, or told off and belittled and possibly refused treatment, if you don't agree with the party line.

Not everyone is comfortable with chaperones either. I prefer a female doctor but I can deal with a male doctor. What I can't deal with is having someone else in the room watching who doesn't need to be there. I completely understand the need for chaperones but it makes me extremely uncomfortable and I'd refuse a male doctor for that reason alone. Thankfully I'm very lucky in that my Doctor's surgery is staffed entirely by female doctors. The only time they have a male doctor is when they use a locum.

For me it isn't about intimate procedures or whether men as a class are a danger or not. It is about hypocrisy and hierarchies of belief.

The NHS has long since decided that single sex provision of care is a good thing in many circumstances. They are measured on reducing mixed sex wards etc. There are no equivalent splits by race or religion.

So, I go in to hospital being told my care is single sex and/or my clinician is a particular sex. Then I see a male present, which is contrary to what I have been told. Now if the NHS stands there and tells me that man is a woman and thus the single sex rules are preserved then that is not OK. It is a lie. When they treat me as a problem for noticing the lie then I have an even bigger problem.

The NHS is mandating that a person's trans belief system that men can be women if they say so, overrides everyone else's belief systems including religious ones and objective reality. The NHS should not be allowed to force what is effectively a religious belief on their patients.

This thread is one of the most depressing things I've read in a while.

I had a breast exam recently and just took whichever doctor was free. The male doctor was clearly very surprised that I hasn't requested a female (so wss i on reflection) and quite uncomfortable doing it.

So all those pretending that this is some weird infrequent request that a busy NHS can't accommodate can take their gaslighting bollocks and stick it.

The NHS should not be allowed to force what is effectively a religious belief on their patients.

This. XY trans people may believe themselves to be women but they aren't. The fact that they aren't can be objectively proven in numerous ways. The belief that they are has no credible evidence to support it whatsoever. I took trans privilege activists advice and educated myself. I found the belief to be utterly unsubstantiated. I do not share this unsubstantiated belief.

I do not consent to having intimate procedures performed by members of the opposite sex. I don't care what 'gender identity' members of the opposite sex believe themselves to have as there is not a single shred of credible evidence that 'gender identities' even exist. Sex on the other hand is easily recognisable and objectively provable.

My consent is not anyone else's to give. I do not have to explain why I do not consent to intimate exams by people of the opposite sex, it is none of anyone else's business. All others need to know is that I don't consent. Any attempt to override my lack of consent is a sexual offense against me and will be reported as such.

There are a number of problems with this aside from the obvious.

FTR, as a one-time victim of rape and other instances of sexual assault, I had no issue with being treated by men. My ob gyn (male) was wonderful, and delivered absolutely wonderful care including of the most intimate variety, like a stretch and sweep. BUT ...

1. for some reason, having accepted this level of care from men, I'm not comfortable with anyone but a female carrying out cervical screening. I can't explain this one myself. Fortunately, as yet it has only ever been female nurses carrying out this procedure.

1. It's women's choice - and right, as to whether they accept it. Another rape victim might feel traumatized. And for someone who doesn't even show her hair to men on religious grounds, it's an obvious no-no (and faith, too, is a protected characteristic).

1. It would be prohibitively expensive. IMO males providing intimate care have never done so without a chaperone. As for transwomen providing that care without one, the problems are too obvious even to need spelling out.

I saw that Twitter feed as it was playing out. One of the responses was: 'patients do not get to dictate the gender of those treating them'. I was under the impression that historically everyone had the right to their own choice of doctor, and could request female HCPs if they so wished.

Thanks very much for all the arsehole posts on this thread. You've made up my mind for me. I shall be lodging Clare's letters whenever I need to have intimate examinations. I don't actually carry any abuse trauma but I am a stroppy gobshite and am happy to make a fuss on behalf of my sisters who need same sex HCPs.

Achievement unlocked, you vile people.

So all those pretending that this is some weird infrequent request that a busy NHS can't accommodate can take their gaslighting bollocks and stick it.

This, I don't know how anyone can say that this is some new or niche concept.

I can’t believe that we are still talking about this

We were told to shut up

What is wrong with you women

When you are told to shut up

Obey

@LangCleg: I'm in the process of back-reading this very long thread (slack-jawed). And I'm coming to the same conclusion.

You know how quite often younger women berate us for standing up for same sex provisions
I was just wondering why they can’t see it, aside from internalised misogyny.
I was wondering if they’re much more sheltered nowadays and genuinely haven’t had scary experiences
We didn’t have a car and caught the bus everywhere. I walked to school alone from 11, had a Saturday job at 16. I was going to nightclubs at 15 and inevitably encountering sexual harassment etc Two 15 year olds out in London at 2am would probably be referred to Social Services these days.

Of course a patient should have the right to choose the sex of their doctor, and I say that as someone who has (so far) felt no inclination or problem either way. Just because I don't mind, doesn't mean those who do should have to consent to care from a medical professional if doing so may make them feel discomfort/distress/any other negative reaction or emtion.

Someone mentioned earlier about always being offered a female chaperone if intimate care was carried out by a male. But if the person performing the care identified as female, presumably this would not be the case? And anyway it does not change the fact that for some women, having a man's hands on them in any circumstances would be unacceptable.

I was surprised when I had my son that one of the male doctors waited for a female colleague to be present before performing an internal exam on me. I told him he was fine to go ahead (and my husband was present, so we were not alone) but he insisted he had to wait. So it seems like one extreme to another... this male doc was not ALLOWED to work on me without female supervision even WITH my permission but if he identified as a female he could potentially do so even WITHOUT my permission...?!

The problem here is patients not playing along and agreeing 2+2=5. I am keeping everything crossed that Maya’s tribunal goes the right way, as equality law protects you from having to manifest a belief you don’t share.

If you have ‘religious’ issues or anything else you have the option to go private and choose which doctor/specialist you see. If not shut up

Ah the old "shut up" instruction. I'm 46 years old and a bit too long in the tooth for such a childish demand to have the intended impact.

What next "educate yourselves" "no debate"? "Boomer"?

As for the rest of it? Woefully embarrassing and offensive.

Slide on back to Twitter.

To the PP who told women who do not want unknown males touching their vulvae to “shut up”!?!? Shame on you.

No woman has to validate anyone with her vagina. How creepy and gross.

No HCP I know has any issue with sex-specific requests. We should all strongly reject any attempt to shame women for having bodily boundaries.

The thing about chaperones is that if I am having an intimate procedure the last thing I want is MORE people in the room!

I was wondering if they’re much more sheltered nowadays and genuinely haven’t had scary experiences

I definitely think this is a factor. Being turned loose to play outdoors with my younger sister in the summer holidays at around 8 or 9, I was certainly aware of the need to steer clear of “flashers’ corner” in our local park - the other kids (also unsupervised) shared the knowledge around & made sure everyone knew if one of the regulars was in the vicinity. I can’t imagine many kids nowadays having that level of awareness at such a young age.

I do not consent to having intimate procedures performed by members of the opposite sex. I don't care what 'gender identity' members of the opposite sex believe themselves to have as there is not a single shred of credible evidence that 'gender identities' even exist. Sex on the other hand is easily recognisable and objectively provable.

Even if it were to be proven that gender exists it would be irrelevant to me in a medical context, as "shares my fondness for minskirts and knee boots" is not something that I require or would request in the person performing my smear test or my mammogram. Why would anyone care about the gender identity of the person doing those procedures? Their sex, otoh, is relevant in multiple ways.