Share your experiences of gender neutral toilets

[Trou]

I went into my first gender neutral toilet this week and I have to say I wasn't impressed. As I walked in two young men stared at me as they were spraying water all around the sink area. As I was washing my hands a man came in and started undoing his trousers before he was in a cubicle. Ok not crimes of the century in either case but quite grim. Never experienced these things in a traditional woman's loo. I was the only woman in there so I felt very odd. Going to the loo at work used to be a nice 5 min break to collect my thoughts. Now it's stressful. Not impressed. Anyone else tried one of these new gender neutral toilets and if so what where your impressions?

Goodness is it half term? ☝️

Trou what did the sign say explaining why mixed sex loos are better?

There's a pub in Hackney which has gender neutral toilets. Duwn a short flight.of stairs and up another couple of steps (can't see any potential problems here?). Cubicles then separate sinks. They were clean enough (Saturday lunchtime) but whst they'd be like in the evening is anyone's guess. And yes, I had the Glare from a man for using them. Have I got to start taking a Man with me to protect me?

Two cubicles and an open area of sinks: A man in one cubicle with the door left open (standing with his back to the room). I enter the toilets just as he finishes up, turns around and starts doing up his fly and walking to the door to leave. He seemed very put out to see me there, like he assumed I had walked into the men’s.

Why leave the door open?
Why not put your penis away before turning to face the public space?
Why look affronted that a woman is also in the shared toilets? (Did he even realise it was a shared toilet and if not why not?)
Also... why not wash your hands?

Gender neutral loos (whether single room or multiple cubicles) are definitely dirtier on average than women’s loos.

Why look affronted that a woman is also in the shared toilets? (Did he even realise it was a shared toilet and if not why not?)

This is part of the same pattern of behaviour that men often extend to female commuters, i.e. resentment that we are occupying public (a.k.a. their) space.

I have also used the Somerset House mixed sex loos described above which I agree are horrible and have the feeling of being unsafe. Had a similar experience in an art gallery where the loos were out of the way and there was just me and one man in there. I felt so vulnerable. It would have been really easy for him to push me into a cubicle had he wanted. No one was around, and the cubicles are fully enclosed.

'Have I got to start taking a Man with me to protect me? '

Oh.
Yes it does start to come to this.

It's a nightmare for girls when they start going out independently isn't it. A proper nightmare. How is a 14yo girl supposed to navigate all this?

Why look affronted that a woman is also in the shared toilets? (Did he even realise it was a shared toilet and if not why not?)

This is part of the same pattern of behaviour that men often extend to female commuters, i.e. resentment that we are occupying public (a.k.a. their) space.

I was at an airport the other week and the queue for the ladies was rather long, as ever. A man, standing in the queue, demanded to know why "we" weren't using two of the cubicles, to get the queue going faster, as he 'could see the doors open'. What he couldn't see was that the toilets were taped off with the sanitary bins on the seats, obviously designated out of use for whatever reason. What arrogance he had to decide that he knew better than the people ahead of his party in the queue (not sure why he was queuing when he'd have had to walk past the mens' to get to the ladies anyway?) I didn't hear the response he got back as I was at the front by now.

A slight tangent, but visiting an Edinburgh pub toilet I noticed a hand written note on the mirror of the ladies' loo. It said, " If you find yourself uncomfortable or not feeling safe with your date ( made reference to dating apps) then you can speak to ( named member of staff) in confidence".

The fact is, especially in a night time economy, women may well use toilets as places of refuge as well for physical necessity.

Local provincial youth centre. "SOME PEOPLE ARE TRANS. GET OVER IT" signs all over the main hall.

I went there for a children's birthday party. The toilets on the same floor as the main hall where the party was being held were labelled 'gender neutral with urinals'. When I went in with my kid, there were two cubicles to the right and then, further in and concealed from the entrance door, a bank of urinals opposite the sinks. So if you used the cubicles and then went to wash your hands you had no choice but to be in close proximity to the urinals.

Even worse, there was a fire exit next to the urinals. So it's entirely possible for a predator to lie in wait by the urinals, hidden from view, and then spring on a girl or woman using the cubicles when she went to use the sinks, and then escape or abduct her through the fire exit- they wouldn't have to return through the main hall of the centre at all.

It was incredibly dangerous and poorly thought out. The party I was at was quite big and there were adult men there as well as 6-7 year old girls, all using the same facilities. Clearly the youth centre, in an attempt to be woke, had just put up a gender neutral sign on what was formerly the gents, without thinking about the safety and impact of that decision.

I told my feminist group and one of the other members emailed the youth club, asking for an impact assessment and a risk assessment on the toilet facilities and blow me down if those toilets didn't revert to 'male' pretty soon after.

Hold on i thought they told women and girls to 'get over it'?

That's a weird move for them to change it back given the strength of their feelings on the matter.

It's a good result but why the fuck did they do it in the first place and put signs up everywhere saying get over it.

If they really feel that strongly they should put their money where their mouth is
Or actually put the comfort and safety of women where their mouth is

The fact that they uturned so quickly shows that the impact on comfort and safety of women and girls did not cross their minds for even a split second

And then they put signs up to push home the point that women and girls were to put up with it

It's enraging just exposing that we DO NOT MATTER AT ALL.

I hate them. My (now former) library in south London switched to mixed sex toilets a few years ago. They effectively turned the female toilets, which were a narrow corridor of cubicles off a very quiet corridor, into gender neutral toilets. The first time I went there, with my then 3yo DD who was desperate for the bathroom, we came across a man butt naked, peeing with the door open. I was furious, but I didn't complain because I believe it was a genuine mistake from that man as he also seemed embarrassed. I pretty much stopped using the bathroom after that as it felt unsafe, and then reduced the time I was spending in the library with my kids as it was a logistical nightmare. I had a baby in a pram which couldn't even fit through the bathroom door, but I couldn't let my daughter go by herself and wait outside at I would have previously done. Any random man can use public toilets and nobody would hear you shout in there. I also had to make sure that the toilets were clean, as they were usually sprayed with pee. Way to support women, to make them clean men's mess! I have the same issues at another local venue which is apparently a very "progressive" space. Grotty mixed toilets with shared sinks. I need to go in and look for a "less dirty" toilet for my kids and clean it before they can use it. There is also a separate row of urinals, so males still have their private space while women and children can get to f*. But that's being inclusive isn't it?

Maybe if men had been a little more accepting of transwomen in male loos, then women wouldn’t be placed in danger and have to be sharing with the whole male sex?

THIS.

Yes, it's always women's fault. We are being punished for not being obliging enough, and serve us right too.

I really, really mind sharing with men.
This is making me feel very stressed, and very angry.

There was a lot of trans rights material on display, more than stuff about knife crime or drugs or bullying. So I'm guessing there's a very woke youth worker and/or some of the teens who use the centre identify as trans or non binary and the people operating decided to make the toilets 'gender neutral' as a cheap and easy way to appeal to their users. But yes, their disregard for the safety and comfort of female users was evident.

I don’t know that men are unaccepting of GNC males in loos. It wasn’t a problem for all the heavily made up and hairspray covered youths I knew in the ‘80s.

Actually SirVix I think that you have a point. I do think that it is part of the shitty guilt tripping victim narrative to claim that they are unsafe and so absolutely must have access to women's spaces.

Is there actually any evidence of TW being attacked by men in men's loos? Hope in Pink uses them and I also think that Fionne Orlander uses them.

It is all about the validation isn't it? Fuck us and our feelings.

How is a 14 year old girl supposed to navigate all this ?
Indeed. I have a 14 year old girl, and last time she was in Wagamama with friends, she didn’t use the loo, even though she needed a wee, as it is too dangerous. So an adult man gets to use any loo he likes, and a teenage girl, who might really need the loo, can’t go. I can see girls with heavy periods staying at home . How can anyone be supportive of this ?

Visiting a newly built college I was interested to see the new toilet facilities had a wide open space with a wide opening directly onto the corridor (so no ‘hidden corners’), flanked by individual cubicles with thick floor to ceiling lockable doors.

They were clean, well lit and felt like there was no space where anything ‘untoward’ could happen without being observed from people passing in the corridor. It seemed like a well designed solution.

I'm always the family member left to book meals out etc. and for the last 18 months I've rang the restaurant/venue to check that they have separate facilities before I book. A restaurant in Kent lost a booking for 17 of us for my mum's 75th birthday and when I spoke to the manager I explained why ('gender neutral' toilets) . No problem to me - there were plenty of other nice restaurants in the area. I won't support any business that doesn't appreciate why women need their own facilities, and we need to hit them where it hurts and withhold our custom.

RedHoodGirl

That does indeed sound like a suitable solution. The problem is when existing facilities are converted, often in the laziest ways possible ie just changing the sign.