I spotted a preferred pronouns badge in the wild

[EoinMcLovesCakeJumper]

I was in a shop today when I noticed that the person behind the till was wearing a big badge in the trans flag colours with the words "They Them" on it. It's the first time I've seen one of these and it just set me to wondering what the point of them actually is.

If I'm participating in a retail transaction with a shop assistant, I'm not going to be using their third person pronouns. At most, I might say "you", as in "Could you put it in a bag, please?", but surely I'd only say "he/she/they" if I was talking about that person to someone else? Perhaps I've missed something, but it seems like a way of drawing attention to one's special status in a situation where people might otherwise not notice.

And anyway, if I hadn't spent so much time reading about this stuff on MN, I would probably have assumed that They Them was the name of some band that I hadn't heard of. There was The The back in the day, after all...

God I LOVED The The. Uncertain Smile is one of my favourite ever songs.

I saw one abandoned in the Egg Cafe in Liverpool, headquarters of Wokeville.

A colleague of mine has "No preference" in her (his? their? xeir?) email signature. Not sure if that's a protest or compliance, and I'm not about to usher forth the fury by asking.

Please just use that *No preference says they’d like 2 sugars in the tea please”

The best (i.e. worst) ones are the ones which say "Ask Me About My Pronouns". To me, that just says "pleeease, please, please, ask me how special I am! Go on, please! I'm dying to tell you that I'm loads more interesting than you!". I'd give anyone I saw wearing one of those a very berth indeed.

Where I live is pretty studenty and woke, but being a middle-aged civil servant, I can usually avoid the worst of it (the pronouns-in-your-signature thing hasn't happened to us yet and I don't think it will, given that, at 40, I'm the youngest person there). I was just surprised that these badges were really a thing that existed and not the stuff of urban legend.

If I saw an "ask me about my pronouns" badge I think I'd be tempted to say "So - tell me about your pronouns!" and then, just as they're about to tell me, say "Actually, don't tell me, I've changed my mind". They'd be furious.

If I'm participating in a retail transaction with a shop assistant, I'm not going to be using their third person pronouns. At most, I might say "you", as in "Could you put it in a bag, please?", but surely I'd only say "he/she/they" if I was talking about that person to someone else?

I guess there are circumstances where it might arise, e.g. if you were complaining about them or if you had to come back with a query and were asked which assistant had served you.

If I ever am made to wear one, the only thing I'll write on it is 'sex based, like my oppression'

Dictating how others speak about you to other people is facist nonsense.

"ask me about my pronouns"

It's a bit like an 'Ask me about Jesus' T-shirt, isn't it? Or, another way of saying: keep a wide berth and do not, whatever you do, make eye contact.

To be fair if it’s anything like MN in shops you likely get kick up ass and sacked if you dare get anyone’s pronoun wrong so least a badge will help everyone else!

A badge. For ffs

They are not kids on their birthdays

🤷‍♀️🤦‍♀️

I see a lot of pronoun preference in the sport I play, it doesn't bother me in he slightest, in fact it's helpful so I don't address someone wrongly.

I mean honestly, if it's important to someone and it's only a tiny part of my day, why not be considerate and use their preference?

ShesDressedInBlackAgain Uncertain Smile is on my 50th birthday party playlist. Top tune. Happy days.

Badges can be very useful. I've seen badges that say the wearer has dementia, so please be patient which help you to be aware that patience will be necessary. Badges that inform about the person's peculiar need to control the regular use of the English language around them so you know to tread very carefully around their sensibilities.

The first example is extremely helpful and means that life is made much easier for everyone. The second, not so much.

I mean honestly, if it's important to someone and it's only a tiny part of my day, why not be considerate and use their preference?

In general I agree, when I can I will use pronouns of choice. When I am compelled however like Maria maclachlan in court. Forced to lie about who hit her, not so bothered.
Also if my pronouns are I, me and mine will anyone ever remember?

I have an I, me, mine badge displayed proudly on my rucksack like I'm 14. No one will ever see it or ask, I wear it like my secret sign of resistance.

Perhaps the next step will be for them to demand that we all wear badges announcing our pronouns.

I mean honestly, if it's important to someone and it's only a tiny part of my day, why not be considerate and use their preference?

It doesn’t have zero impact though. Enforcement of pronouns disadvantages those who don’t have English as a first language, it disadvantages those with learning difficulties. And that’s not to mention the impact on the performance of women if you remind them they are women. I also suspect that there’s a goodish number of dysphoric individuals who find it unsettling having to state and reinforce pronouns.

Being nice isn’t a good enough reason.

Wouldn't it be funnier to cause confusion by pretending not to understand and address the pronoun chap with they.
"Thank you, please could they give me a bag".
"I hope they have a nice day"
"Do they have this is a different size"

The first one I spotted in the field had a blue (yes really) haired young personage dressed like a manga character attached to it.

Themself was in a state of high dudgeon and was waving their arms around wildly as they explained something so several police officers who they had accosted as they were wandering down the road (looking in the shop windows).

They (the police) looked bemused, ‘themself’ looked distraught.

Themself had a rather agitated tone and wasn’t being very coherent. From the look on the police’s faces (although listening politely) I don’t think it was a serious issue or a crimeworthy event.

Sadly I was in a rush or I would have definitely stopped to earwig.

Wouldn't it be funnier to cause confusion by pretending not to understand and address the pronoun chap with they.
"Thank you, please could they give me a bag".

You jest, but this is actually what my husband did because he couldn’t get his head around what was being asked of him when told that a student’s pronoun was “they”. “Would they like to come in?” he asked the person waiting outside his office . . . I did, on hearing this, reluctantly suggest he attend trans awareness training to avoid getting himself into trouble in the future.

I saw one on holiday. It was great because it was just the conversation opener I needed to peak trans the person I was with.

What a transphobic thread.

"Dictating how others speak about you to other people is facist nonsense."

Er, no it's not, is a fundamental part of civil society. By your reasoning Prince Andrew's n*gger in the woodpile comment is a ok.

Yes, there are valid concerns about some aspects of the extensions of trans rights, but the comments are mostly just horrible goading.

The best (i.e. worst) ones are the ones which say "Ask Me About My Pronouns". To me, that just says "pleeease, please, please, ask me how special I am! Go on, please! I'm dying to tell you that I'm loads more interesting than you!". I'd give anyone I saw wearing one of those a very berth indeed.

Not only that but let's say I was onboard with this stuff, and interested - isn't that rude? And intrusive? Because the way normalization works is, the person will then also start asking other people who're not wearing the badge, who may not want to talk about it (which would include some trans people).

All this comes down to attempts at social engineering by people who either don't understand how society works or think they can make it work differently by shouting at everyone.

I don’t see a problem. The pronouns ‘they, their’ are a deviation from the norm, and so if the wearer really cares about people using them a badge isn’t the worst idea.

I’m hoping it all fades into nothingness eventually. When I was growing up in the 70s/80s (US) there was this big deal for loads of women as to whether they should be addressed as Ms vs Miss/Mrs. Loads of people got really upset if the wrong title was used - in either direction. Then it all seemed to fade out and no one really cared anymore.