I spotted a preferred pronouns badge in the wild

[EoinMcLovesCakeJumper]

I was in a shop today when I noticed that the person behind the till was wearing a big badge in the trans flag colours with the words "They Them" on it. It's the first time I've seen one of these and it just set me to wondering what the point of them actually is.

If I'm participating in a retail transaction with a shop assistant, I'm not going to be using their third person pronouns. At most, I might say "you", as in "Could you put it in a bag, please?", but surely I'd only say "he/she/they" if I was talking about that person to someone else? Perhaps I've missed something, but it seems like a way of drawing attention to one's special status in a situation where people might otherwise not notice.

And anyway, if I hadn't spent so much time reading about this stuff on MN, I would probably have assumed that They Them was the name of some band that I hadn't heard of. There was The The back in the day, after all...

What a transphobic thread.......By your reasoning Prince Andrew's ngger in the woodpile comment is a ok.*

And there you go. Straight from the TRA textbook of how to silence discussion.

First make the big statement about how it is "transphobic" (even if you later admit there is no transphobia, just people saying things you don't like.)

Second conflate it with a genuine example of offensive language and try to act like the two are remotely the same.

Slow handclap to the pp who came up with this.

Surely the badge actually means "I'm special and I'm going to push my views on you, then scream transphobia if you disagree."

Well, you could say something like "that assistant with the blue hair..

Or "that one wearing a badge"

maybe if the wearer really cares about pronouns, maybe they should see a really good therapist who will gently guide them to the realisation that they can not and should not compel the speech, thoughts and behaviour of other people

I am female, a woman but very ‘unfeminine’. If men at work started addressing e mails to me as Mr Blouse , or referring to me as ‘he’ I would deal with it, to whatever extent that took. Is that ‘compelling the speech, thoughts and behaviour of other people ‘?

oldcrone that you tube video is spot on.

🤣👌

Compelling the speech, and attempting to compel the perceptions, of others is the height of ill manners and incredibly exclusionary of many of society's most vulnerable people.

It excludes those with learning difficulties, poor literacy skills, dementia, English as a second language.

People who wear these badges are rude and exclusionary and should check their enormous privilege.

Surely the badge actually means "I'm special and I'm going to push my views on you, then scream transphobia if you disagree."
I can almost guarantee that anyone with a pro noun badge is 100% no fun at a party. It's a useful way of spotting a self absorbed toss pot. Waves with great joy at the Monitors 😘

Even if you take out the narcissism and failure to understand how language works, what that badge tells me is that this person is deeply enmeshed in a belief system that I don't share and am fundamentally opposed to. So in a way I would be thankful to know that upfront, so that I can choose to avoid the person and the conflict that would inevitably happen if we did speak at any length.

I think you're right kitten
I had a huge falling out with the only person I know who wears a pro noun badge.

His wife was a therapist (American) who helped children transition. All children. No thought to the fact they may just be GNC or gay. I fundamentally disagreed but felt I couldn't even raise it. So hardline was he, so sure. They were so sure.

I couldn't take him anymore. I do have a huge range of options in my friendship group, unlike him. I try not to block or fall out, even when I disagree. But he was too much.

He was also a water drinking vegan and I know that doesn't mean you can't be fun at parties. It's just he wasn't fun. He was an extremist. He was a self absorbed narcissist too. Completely. Didn't care one jolt for actual people around him, only for abstract woke tokenistic bullshit like this.

If I'm on the wrong side of history, and all the people in heaven are wearing pro noun badges.... GIVE ME HELL. Infinitely preferable.

Hell will have all the good bands anyway. I'd be very irritated to find myself spending eternity listening to someone play the harp.

I’m just awaiting the day I see a person with a ‘baby on board’ badge.

They exist, fekko (google 'baby on board lapel badge') - I suppose those might actually be useful if you're using public transport and are likely to need a seat, unlike the ones in cars.

I got into trouble for avoiding using the wrong pronoun recently. I moderate an online group - a member had posted something that contravened rules. Mods were discussing this (in a private message) and I avoided pronouns deliberately as the member is obviously trans.

We were all then told quite gravely by another mod that we ought to refer to said member as 'they' and that we would be breaking Equalities law if we didn't.

Not sure how said mod worked out the correct pronoun. Must have had to do a bit of research work.

'Ask me about my pronouns' is a decree, rather than a request, it seems.

Ummmmm @ErrolTheDragon I meant people not, er ‘people’ 😉

I thought the 'baby on board' ones on cars were supposedly for emergency services, so that they know if they're looking for survivors post crash to check down low? Could be suburban myth.

We were all then told quite gravely by another mod that we ought to refer to said member as 'they' and that we would be breaking Equalities law if we didn't.

In PMs on a forum? Pretty sure that's not how that works even if that was what Equalities law said.

That also might be useful, fekko, remembering there was a tragedy because a nurse didn't clock that a person was pregnant.

Being made to call someone a pronoun that doesn't match reality is not the fucking same as Prince Knobhead using racist language! How can you even think those two things are the same?
For one thing EVERYONE is either he or she in reality and secondly NO ONE actually is an Nword. Being that it's a racist insult. Unlike he. Or she.

Yes, Kittens, it was a bit ... ott. I wasn't the only one to say so. But I think the intimidation and general climate of fear and uncertainty (ask me about my pronouns OR ELSE) is encouraged by obfuscation - who really even is sure what the legal status is right now? I don't know if the police are.

Which is why all the court cases running/about to run are so crucial, I suppose.

It’s stupid to ask or expect people to conform to others view on pronouns. I will never use the pronoun for you too you, so basically they are telling us how to speak when they aren’t around which is fucking stupid.

Don't tell me, it was in a Lush shop wasn't it?

Yes yes to the ESOL issue. I have an Iranian friend who constantly mixes up he and she, I believe there is no difference in Persian. She'd find pronoun badges baffling linguistically (and also for other reasons, tbf )

Sunkisses it wasn't, surprisingly. It was a local independent shop, which I won't castigate too much because I do like it and buy stuff from there regularly, but let's just say it's the sort of place that you would expect to have a high tolerance for general woo.

@ Ribbityrib - they just don’t use them! I just got used to getting called ‘he’... can’t say it’s made my womb fall out.

Finns can't get to grips with pronouns either, even ones I know who speak very good English otherwise still use he and she interchangeably. Even the woke don't get it right, one kept confusing the pronouns of her trans relative when talking to me in English about them.