I hope my daughter is a lesbian.

[RhinoR]

She's 10.

She says she doesn't like boys. That one day she will get a girlfriend. She says she has a crush on a girl in her class.

This has me hoping she will indeed be gay.
From my own experiences to those I read daily about young women being abused, coerced and degraded by their partners I fear so much for my daughter going through such things.

Women aren't perfect of course, being gay won't protect her from heartbreak and maybe some abuse at the hands of her partner but I daresay I would sleep better at night.

Is that terrible of me?

Yes, but to date men still increases a woman's risk of experiencing domestic abuse from him and ending up as one of the murdered women.

All kinds of things increase risk, but you have to consider the absolute risk or there is no context. I have known people to avoid letting their children play at a local park, or even to be unwilling to leave them in a car while they pay for gas or return a shopping cart, because they fear that increases the chance of them being kidnapped at that time. Well, in a way, if you are with your kids they won't likely get kidnapped, but the fact is that being kidnapped is a tiny risk in any case, and children lose a lot by not being able to be out of parents sight, and it causes a lot of stress for parents. It's not a proportionate way to avoid risk.

The riskiest things most of us can do involve car transport. For children and those who aren't elderly, it's a major cause of death and injury. Yet very few people refuse to drive or have our children drive we even do it for fairly frivolous reasons. From a statistical/rational perspective, why would a person continue to drive despite a real risk, but then avoid relationships with men, which is a much less risky? It suggests an unhealthy approach to risk avoidance, not to mention an ineffective one.

I'm confused why people on a feminism board seem to keen for women to keep dating men, after repeated bad experiences.

No one has said that though. I think everyone is sympathetic towards an individual who has bad experiences and just decides to avoid that thing. Whether it's because they feel too stressed, or it just stops interesting them, or maybe they conclude that their decision making in that regard is poor.

But that is quite different than making general statements about how safe or dangerous it is. So far as advising other people or thinking about what they should do, that ought to be based on facts, not our personal feelings and emotions. Even making our own decisions, I think it's a good idea to be clear about what is and isn't the case - sometimes it becomes clear that there might be a better and more satisfying way to approach the problem.

I don't see why feminists would be keen to see people avoiding things without a proportionate reason.

Nobody is trying to force their daughters to be lesbians.

As a mum all you ever want is for your children to be happy and healthy and in a loving relationship when they grow up. That should be enough, irrespective of whether that be with a boy or girl.

As a mum all you ever want is for your children to be happy and healthy and in a loving relationship when they grow up. That should be enough, irrespective of whether that be with a boy or girl.

What's not to agree with ! Sounds good.

A loving relationship? Are you saying that you would not be happy if they were happily single. Are you whispering that in their ear?

I'm confused why people on a feminism board seem to keen for women to keep dating men, after repeated bad experiences

Maybe I'm just one of the lucky ones, I don't know but I had lots of healthy heterosexual relationships in my youth and only one was abusive and I managed to leave at an early stage.

I like a lot of men, in fact some of my best friends are men. It doesn't stop me from being a feminist.

sure, but whats wrong with hoping your child might be gay, if its seen as normal to hope your child is heterosexual? There are benefits to being straight, and there are benefits to being gay surely. As long as youre not pressuring anyone or making your preferences known.
I think some peoples latent homophobia is coming out on this thread

Is it seen as normal to hope for a specific sexuality? I don’t think it is, it’s weird..

yeah, its pretty common for people to assume their child is straight, hope theyll get married to someone of the opposite sex, have kids etc.
Noone bats an eye. Surely you have kind of noticed thats normal in society?

As soon as someone says, actually, id be pretty happy if my daughter was a lesbian because then she wouldnt have to put up with as much bullshit from men and might be safer, then EVEN ON A FEMINIST BOARD, its all, OMG, but abusive men are really uncommon, and what a STRANGE thing to hope for your child, and you are going to be pressuring her to be gay arent you, and she will pick up on your very subtle preferences and that would be really hard for her to then admit she might be straight.... Thats a different matter.
FGS, its not like anyone has said theyd prevent their child having a heterosexual relationship, or even mention it to them

So far as advising other people or thinking about what they should do, that ought to be based on facts, not our personal feelings and emotions.

Respectfully, I disagree. There are different ways of decision making, and everyone is entitled to make decisions and advise people in the way that resonates the most with them. I find statistics helpful and interesting, and they do inform my opinion. However, ultimately I always go with my gut. Even if all the statistics pointed left, if my gut pointed right I would go with my gut. This is based on my own life experiences, where I have found that going with my gut was always the best decision. The book The Gift of Fear goes into this further and there is a growing body of research that shows how our gut and/or intuition picks up many things that our conscious brain does not.

I don't think anyone should be made to do things that makes them uncomfortable, even if statistics show that they are likely to be safe doing those things.

but whats wrong with hoping your child might be gay, if its seen as normal to hope your child is heterosexual?

That's assuming that any of us did hope that though. What's wrong with hoping that your child is happy? That's all I've ever hoped for

Maybe I'm just one of the lucky ones, I don't know but I had lots of healthy heterosexual relationships in my youth and only one was abusive and I managed to leave at an early stage.

I like a lot of men, in fact some of my best friends are men. It doesn't stop me from being a feminist.

Absolutely fair enough. I certainly don't think all men are bad, or all men are abusers. However, I and many women have not been as fortunate as you, and so choose to avoid men despite being straight. I don't think those women should be told that they should keep giving men a chance. Choosing to be single is a really good option for a lot of women. This is a topic that comes up fairly often on the Gender Critical Subreddit and a lot of people on there choose to avoid men after repeated bad experiences, so I assumed there would be a similar attitude here. It's been interesting to see that this is not the case.

and she will pick up on your very subtle preferences and that would be really hard for her to then admit she might be straight..
So do you not think subtley homophobic parents affect their children then? That children raised against that background don't struggle with coming out to their parents because of their parents beliefs?

I think it's weird that any parent should hope that their child is one sexuality or another but then I don't think that being a heterosexual woman precludes you from being a feminist either.

yeah, its pretty common for people to assume their child is straight, hope theyll get married to someone of the opposite sex, have kids etc.
Noone bats an eye. Surely you have kind of noticed thats normal in society?

As soon as someone says, actually, id be pretty happy if my daughter was a lesbian because then she wouldnt have to put up with as much bullshit from men and might be safer, then EVEN ON A FEMINIST BOARD, its all, OMG, but abusive men are really uncommon, and what a STRANGE thing to hope for your child, and you are going to be pressuring her to be gay arent you, and she will pick up on your very subtle preferences and that would be really hard for her to then admit she might be straight.... Thats a different matter.
FGS, its not like anyone has said theyd prevent their child having a heterosexual relationship, or even mention it to them

Yes well said, I've been really surprised to see this viewpoint here. I wasn't expecting it at all. I guess there is still this societal expectation for women to keep giving men a chance and to avoid being single at all costs. When I left my abusive ex, some of my friends tried to set me up with other men within weeks, whilst I was completely traumatised with severe PTSD. I've had medical professionals treat me with suspicion when I've said I'm single and not looking for a partner. One of them suggested I get help because it clearly wasn't normal to just stop dating lol. I couldn't believe it, but then I realised, society is set up with the expectation that straight women will eventually get married and have children and that any time spent not dating is just a temporary period before eventually she'll settle down. Heaven forbid she just stops dating and chooses to be single. Straight women choosing not to date or have children are still seen as really odd by a lot of people. I think we are still seen as not fulfilling our expected societal role.

If I really really think about it and I had a choice I get where OP is coming from. If I'm entirely honest I'd rather DD was in a same sex relationship.

Ofc I have no say or choice in it, and at 8 I don't even really think about it so all I hope for ,not just when it comes to relationships is that she's happy and safe.

Theoretically though,I completely understand OP's point of view.

Yanbu. I secretly hope all my dcs are gay. Or just incredibly lucky when it comes to choosing opposite sex partners. Heterosexuality has had a pretty good run as being the default and it hasn't worked especially well - combined with patriarchy it forces men into a shitty alpha role most of them don't really want which in turn makes them angrier and more aggressive than most want to be, which their female partners end up paying the price for, often with their lives. Time for a change and i don't mean LGBTQSRGDTUD alphabet soup either. That's just more enforced gender roles and paraphilia dressed up as liberation. Time to move on, people.

Ahh so you meant assume not hope. Two different words. My point stands.

However, ultimately I always go with my gut. Even if all the statistics pointed left, if my gut pointed right I would go with my gut.

That leaves you in a position where you are saying things like, I think you should not let your kids go to the playground alone because it is too risky, when it is perfectly safe and in fact healthy to do so. Just because your own emotions are telling you otherwise why would you want to put that on other people?

Surprised by the responses considering the board! I get you OP.

That leaves you in a position where you are saying things like, I think you should not let your kids go to the playground alone because it is too risky, when it is perfectly safe and in fact healthy to do so. Just because your own emotions are telling you otherwise why would you want to put that on other people?

If I'm advising others, it's not about my emotions, it's about theirs. I'd always recommend people go with their gut. Countless women have given me that same advice and I'm forever grateful they did.

As an aside, if I had children, I'd never let them go to a playground alone. I thought people stopped doing that in the 1980's. I wouldn't consider it to be safe at all. But if you do let your children do this, that's up to you. It's clear we are very different people with a very different view of the world. That's absolutely fine, I respect your way of doing things even though I disagree with it. I'm not going to tell you you're making decisions wrong, or advising people wrong, because it's none of my business what you do, it's up to you. I'd hope you could extend the same courtesy to me.

Neither decision is right or wrong, and neither decision making process is right or wrong. You're free to make decisions however you want, and advise people however you want, as am I.

I think some peoples latent homophobia is coming out on this thread

Yep. And internalised sexism - there's a sort of latent suggestion that females need males, it's the way of the world - almost Christian, really. I don't get it, not on a FWR board.

Being a lesbian isn't a sort of second best that we can tolerate in our brave new world of acceptance.

Why wouldn't a mum be happy her adult child could live a life in which the most important people in it are female ? What's this 'balance' b/s ?

People do know that lesbians work with men, socialise with men, see men on the street, have dads, have brothers, nephews, sons - they're not lacking in bloody balance.

Being a lesbian is something to celebrate. Getting out from under heterosexuality can be a massive positive for women.

Lesbian women also face many challenges, and part of celebrating them, their orientation, their relationships, is understanding those challenges, and helping change the homophobia that drives those challenges.

@Sunshineandeggshells also surprised at the responses! I never knew so many people on FWR thought being a lesbian was so shit!

I don't get treated any differently by society or if I do I'm oblivious to it.

Choosing to be single is a really good option for a lot of women

Well yes. I did say I was fortunate at the start and I never did get into another relationship after the abusive one, so I know how that affects women.

And internalised sexism - there's a sort of latent suggestion that females need males, it's the way of the world

For bisexuals, avoiding male sexual partners is an option, for lesbians it's what comes naturally, but are you suggesting that the rest of womenkind should just forget about their sexuality?

If I'm advising others, it's not about my emotions, it's about theirs. I'd always recommend people go with their gut. Countless women have given me that same advice and I'm forever grateful they did.

People can really make their lives worse at times living by their gut, and the lives of the people around them. Many people are anxious and unhappy because of unreasonable fears.
I find it odd that people can be all about follow the science, not your sense of needing to be nice or your attachment to a certain sort of politics or whatever, on the one hand, and be prepared to tell others they need to do this, but then it becomes clear it's really about what resonates with them personally.

As an aside, if I had children, I'd never let them go to a playground alone. I thought people stopped doing that in the 1980's. I wouldn't consider it to be safe at all.
The 80s was when stranger danger became a big fear, yes, and there have been some pretty negative consequences of that for kids. The chance of children being kidnapped or even assaulted by strangers is very small, and there are a lot of important developmental implications to not allowing kids to develop that kind of independence and autonomy. So it's not a neutral thing, as a social trend and narrative that kind of fear has consequences.