Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

ROGD Parent Support

361 replies

iamright17 · 16/11/2019 00:34

This is a new thread for parents who are experiencing the phenomenon of Rapid Onset Gender Dysphoria in their tweens/ teens/ young adults.

Sadly we are being watched and our words taken out of context so please be careful what you say.

I want the UK and beyond to listen to parents. Even if it is deemed as anecdotal for now, it is important for someone to acknowledge our perspective. The trans narrative is trying to undermine our credibility.

OP posts:
JanesKettle · 28/12/2019 21:19

Floral

I reckon it is a cult-like phenomenon.
For that reason, I am pretty restrained in what I say/said to my kids about the people in their (IRL/online) lives pushing this stuff.

I'd be interested in info from this perspective.

Italiangreyhound · 28/12/2019 21:51

@JanesKettle "Treatment tends to be a combination of talk therapy (exploration of feelings) + meds for co-morbid conditions + psychological skills training."

Hi, can you say what meds these mat be and what "psychological skills training", please?

My child is on Fluroxitine for depression and anxiety

FloralFestiveBunting · 28/12/2019 22:19

Janes in my view this is an area worthy of proper investigation re: cult techniques. Most of the current work looks at very personality driven groups, but I think the internet has created a new dynamic that definitely needs exploring and studying.

There are generally two types of cult - religious or therapeutic. I suspect this movement has stronger overtones of the therapeutic, especially given the heavy doses of psychobabble introspection often displayed by youtube personalities - it's my contention that various Youtubers, with the false intimacy and sense of community created by linked social media, function in a very similar way to more well understood Leaders in various sects.

No one joins a cult. They explore an interesting therapy or philosophy, one that seems to answer all their anxious questions, and it's not until they have been subject to intensive grooming that they may ever get a hint of what they gave got into, though those around them will often see it and feel helpless to stop it.

A lot of people have heard of love bombing - this is the kind of thing that young people will be coming across on various social media, and combined with parental alienation, it fosters a huge sense of identifying with the group.

The parental alienation will be accompanied by a nurtured paranoia and feeling of persecution. Again, every youthful insecurity amplified.

In terms of what we as parents can do to offset these techniques is, first and foremost, love unconditionally. Always an open door and listening ear. Be your child's strongest advocate.
But as has already been mentioned, don't fall for the drama. Part of the conditioning is the belief that their group is under very special persecution, and there is a constant adversarial undercurrent.
So, state your rules, but don't get drawn into slanging matches where you tell them they are brainwashed and their favourite instagrammer is a deluded liar, however much you may know it to be true. The more you reinforce that persecution narrative, the stronger it becomes inside them.
In fact, if at all possible, don't let your child lead you into long discussions about Trans at all - we've talked before on FWR about the language used to mark out who is in, and who is out, and a lot of the teachings of the Trans movement are not meant to clarify, but to confuse. You are much better off drawing you child's attention to the huge wide sphere of real life that will, hopefully, eventually make the obsessive internet-driven world of mastectomy scars, cutesy terms for experimental medical interventions and endless eggshell treading to make sure the most current terms are used for fear of cancellation, look like the pointless, empty shadow boxing it really is.

I hope some of this is helpful. It's the kind of thing I'd really like to write a book about, but I am pretty damned sure wouldn't get published atm.

TinselAngel · 28/12/2019 22:53

I'm really pleased to see this support thread is already helping women. Here's to it being as sucessful as the trans widows thread Wine

Italiangreyhound · 28/12/2019 22:58

NonHypotheticalLurkingParent I have pmed you re your comment "Once dd’s OCD was treated, her life changed."

I just wanted to ask anyone about OCD, please. I have OCD, very mild now but as a teen it was a bit of a problem. I sometimes wonder if my dd (15) has it too.

Does any one have experience of OCD in children? Of OCD being diagnosed and treated as a child etc?

My dd is under CAMHS but they have not been much help so far.

Any advice, pm or otherwise, would be so helpful, please, anyone. Flowers

LangCleg · 28/12/2019 23:06

I'm really pleased to see this support thread is already helping women. Here's to it being as sucessful as the trans widows thread

This. And excellent advice offered, Floral.

iamright17 · 29/12/2019 00:36

My intention on starting this thread was for 2 reasons
The first was for support and to let other parents have an alternative to affirmation and to be able to say no I don’t agree with the narrative.
The second reason was that there was no open forum for us. I have been on closed support groups which have been my lifeline but because they are closed the public would not see the devastation and therefore were not aware.
I hope by making this more public people will see what is actually happening. Sunlight.

OP posts:
JanesKettle · 29/12/2019 05:14

can you say what meds these mat be and what "psychological skills training", please

Standard meds for anxiety, depression.

Distress tolerance, mindfulness, interpersonal effectiveness, emotional regulation (all modules in DBT therapy - dd found distress tolerance and emotional regulation most useful, followed by interpersonal effectiveness)

JanesKettle · 29/12/2019 05:16

In terms of what we as parents can do to offset these techniques is, first and foremost, love unconditionally. Always an open door and listening ear. Be your child's strongest advocate.
But as has already been mentioned, don't fall for the drama. Part of the conditioning is the belief that their group is under very special persecution, and there is a constant adversarial undercurrent.
So, state your rules, but don't get drawn into slanging matches where you tell them they are brainwashed and their favourite instagrammer is a deluded liar, however much you may know it to be true. The more you reinforce that persecution narrative, the stronger it becomes inside them

Great advice, Floral

PolyplaxSerrata · 29/12/2019 09:38

Can anyone give me some ideas about how we might find someone neutral/ ROGD sceptical for DD to talk to about her feelings? Some of you seem to have found suitable therapists , so they must be out there!
We are in NW London but would obviously travel.

NeurotrashWarrior · 29/12/2019 10:10

Thank you for this thread; this is a very important collection of experiences which need to be given a voice.

ArranUpsideDown · 29/12/2019 13:37

On the topic of radicalisation and community via social media (and YouTube) there's a useful Twitter thread criticising some research that's had a lot of play (I didn't bold it):

-

A new paper has been making the rounds with the intriguing claim that YouTube has a de-radicalizing influence. arxiv.org/abs/1912.11211

Having read the paper, I wanted to call it wrong, but that would give the paper too much credit, because it is not even wrong. Let me explain.

Radicalization via YouTube, as widely understood, is when someone watches a few partisan videos and unwittingly starts a feedback loop in which the algorithm gradually recommends more and more extreme content and the viewer starts to believe more and more of it.

The key is that the user’s beliefs, preferences, and behavior shift over time, and the algorithm both learns and encourages this, nudging the user gradually. But this study didn’t analyze real users. So the crucial question becomes: what model of user behavior did they use?

The answer: they didn’t! They reached their sweeping conclusions by analyzing YouTube without logging in, based on sidebar recommendations for a sample of channels (not even the user’s home page because, again, there’s no user). Whatever they measured, it’s not radicalization.

twitter.com/random_walker/status/1211263735999946752 [Thread continues.]

--
This caught my attention because the family friend (upthread) mentioned that she'd heard that YouTube was creating communities, acceptance, and wasn't nudging young people towards extremes.

NonHypotheticalLurkingParent · 29/12/2019 14:58

Italian - I've messaged you back.

We have a lot of family history of OCD. There are a lot of common themes for obsessions and ruminations - religion, causing diseases and death, homosexuality. Basically, your brain gets stuck on a thought and won't stop. The only way to stop it is to do a ritual - either internally, counting, saying a certain phrase in your head over and over, or externally - switching lights on and off a certain amount of times, cleaning, washing hands, etc.

OCD involves a lot of magical thinking, for example believing you can stop people dying by doing rituals, you know it's illogical, you know it's not possible, but you still do it - that's the compulsion.

I'm not a therapist, but I saw a lot of magical thinking from dd when she identified as transgender. Each next step would be the panacea to quieten her internal distress. It didn't work like that. The obsessions and ruminations got worse in search of the ultimate goal - being 100% male.

www.ocduk.org/ is a good place to start!

Italiangreyhound · 29/12/2019 16:29

JanesKettle Thank you.

FloralFestiveBunting · 29/12/2019 17:46

I suspect the algorithm angle can be overstated. I don't think AI is pushing this forward, there is something rather more organic going on - the YouTubers create the centre of the vortex, if you will, like a Charismatic leader of an 'in person' cult. But the radicalisation occurs from the comment threads and groups that provide the language reinforcement, love bombing and collective punishment by shunning if someone steps out of line.

It is clearly a field ripe for properly scientific investigation, but the way the scientific community approaches this topic, I can't see that happening soon.

DuMondeB · 29/12/2019 18:00

I thought this was interesting - ‘Tyince’ an FTM YouTuber who’s phalloplasty Q&A video has over 1 million views recently detransitioned.

Ty’s most recent video is titled ‘I Am A Woman’.

I’m angry that Ty was sucked into this medical experimentation and hopeful that reidentifying will lead to a better life. I’m also hopeful that a YouTuber with such a big reputation ‘coming out’ as detrans will open the eyes of all our daughters (and sons) currently experiencing sincere gender distress.

www.youtube.com/user/tylerjvine/videos

Ty is often name checked as an influence by young, female gender questioners (see Pinterest as an example: www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/698128379708418220/) so perhaps some influence will happen in the opposite direction.

Italiangreyhound · 29/12/2019 18:16

NonHypotheticalLurkingParent thank you I have messages you back. Flowers

JanesKettle · 29/12/2019 21:48

Re finding neutral care: it's a crap shoot.

My personal experience ? Psychiatrists are more likely to be neutral than psychologists. Take that with a grain of salt - we're talking our experience with 4-5 psychiatrists vs a handful of psychologists. Anecdote only.

But I have heard (esp older) psychiatrists talk about social contagion quite openly. One told me to forget about the gender b/s, that it would fade once we got a handle on dd's mental health.

Could have just been luck.

JanesKettle · 29/12/2019 21:50

But even the least neutral psychiatrist (who ds currently sees) is very, very comfortable taking a lot of time. Ds has been seeing them for a year, no treatment other than a/d's and talking therapy. They also recommended DBT, which unfortunately, is $$ for adolescents here, but also run by psychologists (some of whom are rah rah gender).

PolyplaxSerrata · 30/12/2019 08:57

@DuMondeBe DD told me outright that the only trans people who detransition were the ones that had had some sort of trauma- she did mention the girl you refer to above.
She's a bright girl but she's not concocting these defences out of thin air. She's getting them from somewhere online.

DuMondeB · 30/12/2019 10:46

Welll, adolescence itself is traumatic so that’s a good reason to delay transition until adulthood (preferably 25 when the brain has finished developing)!

Our daughter’s ROGD feelings began mid puberty when she was catcalled by an adult man for the first time :/ (the same year her little sister had a cancer related illness) so we think it all connected. If only we could find a therapist to talk it all through with her without affirming the sex stereotype B/S :/

Luckily for us our eldest is more 4 Chan edgelord libertarian than LGBT sorting hat celebrator, so he wouldn’t dream of correcting our pronoun use for his sister! He’s surrounded by what he calls ‘Gender Neutral Nobodies’ at uni anyway (and his best friend is gay and sick of finding teen transmen on his dating apps!)

PolyplaxSerrata · 30/12/2019 13:35

@DuMondeB LOL at your last paragraph.
Our eldest is 18 and off to uni in September and is horrified by her youngest sister's announcement.
She has a few trans friends but was as blindsided as we ( her parents) were. She's basically moved out to live with a friend for a bit as she can't cope with revising at home. I don't blame her- wish I could do the same!

DuMondeB · 30/12/2019 16:59

You have to laugh at it, or we’d cry!

In our household DH does all the cooking (inc. grocery shopping) and I do all the DIY (inc. bricklaying and owning/operating power tools).

I asked DsD if this made us both non-binary? 🤗

FloralFestiveBunting · 30/12/2019 18:20

4 Chan edgelord 🤣

DuMondeB · 30/12/2019 19:36

Can you imagine the dinner table in our house? 😂

19 year old prodigal aspie son ‘triggering’ 13 yr old DsD over her ‘softboi uwu’ beanie hat’ and tiny 8 year old cancer patient quietly feeding giant rescue greyhound her leftovers while everyone is distracted.

I mean, I know GD feels real to DsD but the contrast between her problems and her sister’s are 80a/90s sitcom worthy (not PC enough for current day)!

Swipe left for the next trending thread