Posie Parker on Triggernometry

[Childrenofthestones]

Posie in discussion titled "Trans women are men" with Francis Foster and Konstantin Kisin on their YT show Triggernometry.
This is a promo clip, the full show goes out Sunday evening.

I’ve watched loads of your podcast episodes (recent favourites being Lionel Shriver and Douglas Murray. I’ve even watched some of your live Q&As (well, I say watched, more sort of listened to while I did the washing up or scraped wallpaper). I thought the India Willoughby one was a bit incurious around the subject of trans inclusion in women’s sport but you more than made up for it with Zuby and Posie.

I hope you don’t give up on this battle - making space for robust disagreement is vital work.
Can you have Julie Bindel on next please? She’s very funny and will happily explain why women aren’t to blame for what men do. Or Miranda Yardley - a transsexual who is more or less the antithesis of Willoughby (and just as controversial as Posie).

Good luck!

I know you ladies have a particular issue with the gender ideology but for us this is about a much broader struggle which is the shutting down of debate in general.

@Triggerpod you don't need to lecture us about the free speech issue - many of us have already been banned from Twitter. Most of the conversations in the last 24 hrs (MForstater, Caroline Farrow...) have been about women being censored/threatened/silenced for their views.

Have you stopped to think that this is actually an even bigger issue than the "shutting down of debate"? We're talking about moving into a world where everyone can define their own subjective truth, entirely divorced from material facts, and we all have to "respect their reality". We're not just shutting down debate - we are heading towards 2+2=5. On Monday a court of law heard a barrister argue that a belief in male and female biological sex is an incoherent conspiracy theory made up in the last few years. It's chilling.

"whole "speaking as a woman" nonsense"

Who even says this? It's like the famous boogeywoman who screams at men holding doors open, popular in men's imaginations yet never personally witnessed.

When I want my opinion taken seriously online I most definitely do NOT preface my comment with an admission that I'm of the bobble-brained bimbo babymaker clan.

Actual feminists, as opposed to funfem libfems steeped in postmodernism, don't think of women as an identity.

Following Engels, they think of women as an economic class the providers of sexual, domestic, and reproductive labour the ones who produce the workers the economy requires.

ScrimshawTheSecond Thank you for the link. I woke up ridiculously early and it’s been a perfect watch.

What BickerinBrattle just said.

Once you see it like that you see how preposterous and nonsensical it is for someone to "opt in" to that sex class by choice. We can't opt out. Babygirls killed off at birth in some countries can't. Girls in forced marriages can't. Women who need a man's permission to travel or drive can't.

Magdalen Berns' video on Stonewall would be a good reference here re. "Living full time as a woman."

Thanks whoever posted the Trig video (can't see your name now!) on the second site - I had been waiting to watch it then shocked that it had been removed (well, removed so quickly at least).

I wish Posie had had time to mention trans lesbians - that's a peaky blinder. It's great hearing her having time to speak though. Normally she's got a short time frame with some type of combative fellow guest speaker or interviewer who are merely trying to get a ride out of her. Nice to hear an adult interview - and have disagreement without assholery or pseudo hurty feels.

Interested to see other interviews by the Trig guys now. Tempted to test how I feel it goes with someone like IW..but I already know I can't watch an hour of that person...

And KettlePolly thanks for the Berns video on AD - my god that is a good one and I'd somehow missed it!

Lisa Muggeridge's video on mothers is another one I find interesting in terms of things we can't opt out of and things the societies we live in absolutely know and in fact rely upon us not opting out of. Sex classes aren't optional.

Yeah I think you'll find we know a bit about free speech Trig. Take a look at the Maya Forstater thread. Only you can't because it's been taken down.

If you stick around, you'll see that feminists disagree on practically everything and always have. Hope you do stay - lots of material for you and it could be fun!

Oh I beg your pardon, the Maya Forstater thread is back up

@Triggerpod Emma Hilton would be amazing for you to have on. Also Claire Graham.
The trans issue is at the very heart of free speech issues. It exemplifies the issues of free speech, censorship, compelled speech and hate crime. Please don't dismiss this as a feminist side issue; it really isn't.

And we haven't even started to talk about the abuse of children in the name of transgender ideology!!!!!

Trig (makes me think of only fools and horses) I see your point about how feminists asked for it (I know you aren't putting it in those terms.)

My view is, to a degree some feminists did, at least they call themselves feminists. Men have been in women's spaces for decades, I think it's fair to say that women have been taught to be kind, quiet and to step aside and there has been talk on this board that there was a tacit agreement where we saw a man in a wig and a dress using the women's loos and we wouldn't complain (but we never had to use the word woman to describe him). To a degree this was fine, for a while. Then men like this, but not all of these men, wanted more but they didn't ask politely, in fact no one actually asked us, they just took it. Men did that, not women.

I know two women personally - one who doesn't have a problem with mixed sex toilets and another who uses phrases like 'pregnant people'. For me, they are partly responsible and I now struggle to be around them. Many of us have lost friends, have been silenced to varying degrees, have been accused of awful things and been given awful labels. None of this we asked for, it is not our fault.

Like many of the women here, I am angry and scared and that comes across in a different way here than it would if we were face to face having a calm debate like you did with Posie.

I'm going back to your channel to watch the India W episode, I will watch out for more. Posie has raised your profile!

Please stick around and tell us what is happening with getting Posie's episode reinstated and there's a good thread for Newbies if you're interested, also the Break it Down for Me thread and the It Never Happens thread, along with the Trans Widows and Parents of RODG kids would be a good read for you to find your feet. All questions welcome.

a broader struggle which is the shutting down of debate in general.

Trigger, watched your interview with Douglas Murray and with PP and I completely agree with you about this. The authoritarianism which has taken hold in academia is having an extremely damaging effect upon the Enlightenment values many of us took for granted. The concept of I don’t agree with you but will defend your right to have a dissenting opinion has gone. This hasn’t happened overnight, this erosion of freedom of speech has evolved over the last two decades. This is the cultural battle of the 21st century and its outcome will determine whether we are living in a Newspeak nightmare or an Open Society. The latter has many powerful enemies.

@Triggernometry - another court case to follow today - Harry the Owl's judicial challenge to Humberside Police's recording of hate incidents.

I've been saying for ages that the silencing of women's voices over trans rights conflicting with women's rights in some really important areas (the right to decent humane conditions when in prison, the right to freedom of assembly, etc) are the canary in the coal mine for freedom of speech.

I've been saying for ages that the silencing of women's voices over trans rights conflicting with women's rights in some really important areas (the right to decent humane conditions when in prison, the right to freedom of assembly, etc) are the canary in the coal mine for freedom of speech.

It's the freedom of speech and infringement of civil liberties that scares me the most about the trans/women's rights issue. Without those freedoms, we are screwed.

I'm probably in this more for child safeguarding than I am even for women (although obviously also in it for women, particularly working class women). You might want to explore this angle at some point, Konstantin - I'd make an assumption you're for parental rights, which would be a slightly different position to mine, but I think you might get a few shocks, were you to look into it in any depth.

It's instructive to see which threads get deluged with complaints so that women's words on them are censored hereabouts: those with the topic of child safeguarding are right at the top of the list.

It was the freedom of speech issues, particularly in universities, that really brought me into looking more deeply into trans issues, and I do think in some ways its more fundamental. There will always be ideological debates and disagreements around what to do in law or just social custom, and I hope that even when they are very serious we come to some sort of reasonable approach after people have weighed in and thought about it, at least most of the time.
But once there is this authoritarian control of speech that can't happen.

Seeing it operate with gender ideology made it clear to me that it was also operating in other ideologies, where I more generally agreed with basic principles, for example in questions around race like we saw at Evergreen. It's so disturbing.

@OhHolyJesus Please stick around and tell us what is happening with getting Posie's episode reinstated and there's a good thread for Newbies if you're interested, also the Break it Down for Me thread and the It Never Happens thread, along with the Trans Widows and Parents of RODG kids would be a good read for you to find your feet. All questions welcome.

Reinstatement is not going to happen. YouTube do whatever they want and don't answer to anyone. I wrote a piece about this a while back in the Telegraph.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/06/26/need-first-amendment-internet-counter-troubling-censorship-social/

As for sticking around, I've been lurking on your forums for at least 2 years - feminism is an issue we have discussed with numerous guests in the past so I'm constantly trying to educate myself on these perspectives.

I'll be around - even though the insults are already coming out. Someone called me an MRA and I think someone else really wanted to hurt my feelings and called me a "journalist" .

We're working on getting the story to go into the mainstream media - amazingly they really don't want to bite. But there will be stuff about it over the weekend and it could go very big next week depending on how things go.

We're working on getting the story to go into the mainstream media - amazingly they really don't want to bite

What do you think is the reason for this? I have learned more about Maya Forstater’s case on this forum than by reading The Telegraph et al. The media’s reluctance to print ‘problematic’ news items and its self censorship is another grim sign of the times.

amazingly they really don't want to bite

Don't underestimate the fear of even reporting on this subject. Masses of this has gone unremarked on in the press. There are a few papers that will report on it, but not many, not most. And the bbc ... well.

I was able to watch the interview on bitchute. I thought it was excellent and really cannot understand why it was taken down. After all if someone doesn't like what's being said they can stop listening can't they? I wish the TRAs would act like grownups but alas they don't know how :( . So much easier to throw a tantrum.
Posie you are amazing

I'm probably in this more for child safeguarding than I am even for women (although obviously also in it for women, particularly working class women). You might want to explore this angle at some point, Konstantin - I'd make an assumption you're for parental rights, which would be a slightly different position to mine, but I think you might get a few shocks, were you to look into it in any depth

Same here. When I discovered the horror of what's happening to children and how the people driving that have abused their own children through drugs and irreversible surgery and sterilisation (and are being given public resources to indoctrinate families and other children) I knew I'd never be able to close my eyes.

When I saw the dismantling of safeguarding and boundaries and what the NSPCC is up to, I was deeply disturbed.

You need to speak to Lisa Muggeridge, who predicted the end game some time ago.

You need to speak to Lisa Muggeridge, who predicted the end game some time ago.

Lisa's not on social media to speak to any more and has no plans to return but her videos are up (and the new series about the roots of the current UK political meltdown) at this channel:

www.youtube.com/channel/UC9c2nFwyCdfgBG8BhFys3-A/videos

What's up with calling you a "journalist" ?