Ru Paul's Drag Race FOI request?

[WineIsMyCarb]

Given that the BBC does not allow 3rd party advertisers, is an FOI request the right way to go about finding out if the headline slot on BBC iPlayer for RuPaul's Drag Race is paid for? Have had wine, am cross. Sick of the fucking sight of him. (Follows previous thread about iplayer not having an algorithm and others' about drag being misogynistic in large parts).

Just watched the finale. Great final episode and great series overall.

Didn't see any evidence of misogynistic behaviour. What I did see was individuals who have struggled through adversity, striving for acceptance through their talented performances.

I also saw plenty of:
Charisma.
Uniqueness
Nerve
Talent

Interesting that they often had female guest judges on the show. None seemed to be offended

Long live drag race and here's to Series 2!

I’m still not over the poster who claimed when they were dressing up as their home towns and one of them dressed as a bull ring, it was being indirectly implied women were cows

I’m not necessarily disagreeing with people being offended by drag but I found that particularly to be trying far too hard to take offence!

She hasn't watched it- just the ad caused her offence.

Anyway I've been thinking about this and I do think that drag could be a powerful weapon in fighting misogyny.

I've said a few times that drag is not about us, it's not about actual women. It's about the silly gender roles and stereotypes we're all born into. Many people have to fight their way out, or come out in order to be themselves.

Drag presents a particular idea of womanhood- it's tits and arse, highly plasticated mask. It has little to do with real life. The mask is so artificial, so divorced from reality that anyone can put it on (even a man) and pull it off.

They're sending it up because it deserves to be sent up.

Is it a man’s job to send up women through?

They're not sending up women though- they're sending up a particular idea of womanhood.

The tits n arse, hypersexualised, nympho, male gaze responding idea of womanhood.

this is interesting it is everywhere, im. quite indifferent, i dont watch it. theres an American
show called pose, albeit is ryan murphy to a T, its very informative about transgender runaways in new York inthe 1980s, ballroom culture and the aids epidemic, and a lot of people were annoyed at the lack of promo.

She hasn't watched it- just the ad caused her offence

If you are referring t me, I have watched it. The first episode was enough. I don't enjoy drag in the slightest and never have done.; and having been around the drag scene a lot, I'm imagining, before you were even born, then I'm certainly qualified to have an opinion.

Just as certain names and words are considered verboten, because offensive, when applied to race or homosexuality, I'd say that words such as 'slag', 'slapper', 'tart' and so on are when applied to women.

Words such as these have been used to insult and oppress women - used on then as they are being beaten, assaulted, raped and murdered. Used on them in pornography; and shouted across the street at us as we go about our daily lives.

Words are important because they have power.

Drag may 'liberate' gay men, but the representations of women don't liberate women. They encourage and condone depictions of women which are ugly and offensive. And that is without mentioning the casual insinuations that female genitalia is dirty, disgusting and smelly. Simply saying they are just stereotypical representations and therefore don't matter, is not the case.

Clearly lots of people are wedded to drag - as it is a central part of gay male culture. And drag has had a largely free ride so far. However, many of us are no longer prepared to say nothing just to be supportive to men, who frankly seem to have little care for us.

And that is without mentioning the mainstreaming & pushing of drag on prime time TV; and the introduction of inappropriately sexualised 'drag kids' and events such as 'Drag Queen Story Time'.

This is a women's rights board and concerns feminism. Feminism centres women ( & children). Not men.

Why don’t they do straight men doing gay men impersonations and ‘tasks’? They could dress up and get up to all sorts of high jinx, and it would be so funny!

Oh... that would be offensive

They're not sending up women though- they're sending up a particular idea of womanhood

Would you say that about people 'camping up', with limp wrists; wiggling their arses; and freely using language such as 'faggot', 'girly boy', 'poofter' or 'pansy', for the entertainment of the masses by the national broadcaster?

That certainly used to happen on British TV in the 1970's - but would just not be considered acceptable now - for good reason.

Same thing in my book. But that’s not taking the piss out of women though is it, so not ok?

There’s definitely an agenda at the BBC. On radio 4 rewind, randomly shoehorned archive about how ignorant we used to be.

Same thing in my book. But that’s not taking the piss out of women though is it, so not ok?

Yes, women are always at the bottom of any barrel.

What was it John Lennon said?

There’s definitely an agenda at the BBC. On radio 4 rewind, randomly shoehorned archive about how ignorant we used to be. hmm

Yes, definitely...it is as bad as the Guardian these days.

Last night's 'BBC N.W Tonight' ( regional news programme) featured 'The Vivienne ' - apparently the winner of the first series. 'The Vivienne' is from Liverpool - which is where I live - and there was even expensive advertising in the main shopping area for 'drag race' suggesting people vote for him.

I will say justhadathought that I nearly didn't bother after the first episode. I found one contestant fairly disturbing and off putting.

They're not sending up women though- they're sending up a particular idea of womanhood.
The tits n arse, hypersexualised, nympho, male gaze responding idea of womanhood.
The primary motive of drag performers is not for a feminist gender revolution. It is to create an illusion, a spectacle and to make other people laugh, whilst breaking the taboo of a man dressed as a woman. Gay men dress up in drag to empower gay men, women are not in the least in their thoughts. Some drag performers are more skilled at comedy than others, I thought the winner of the series had some skill. As for others on the show, their humour depended on cheap laughs derived from calling women 'slags', 'Essex girls' and 'slappers', with constant reference to repulsive female genitals, and generally making working class women look grotesque and inferior. They may not hate women, but they certainly don't give them a second thought when using this kind of language. You may as well argue Benny Hill or Carry On films are a subversive feminist critique of gender roles as argue this kind of humour is. Someone like Steve Coogan can dress up as a female character and make it hilarious, because he's a skilled comedian and looks past cheap, nasty gags about 'slags' and 'slappers', making his characters 3 dimensional. Any subject matter can be used in comedy, but it depends how sensitively you handle it and who the target of the joke is. When the joke depends on depicting women in crude stereotypes that went out of fashion in comedy in the 1970s along with mother-in-law jokes, then I neither find it funny nor feel very comfortable with it. Sometimes, the callous and bitchy nature of it feels plain cruel, but this is often the case in all kinds of comedy when the performer isn't well-skilled and misses the mark. I suppose drag performers will never have had the same kind of audience feedback as other comedians whereby to hone their skill, because they will always be performing to a supportive crowd, and one disproportionately made up of gay men. They won't get to gauge what is being too cruel, what is sexist etc. Any straight male comic would never get away with the depictions of women on 'Drag Race'.

I will say justhadathought that I nearly didn't bother after the first episode. I found one contestant fairly disturbing and off putting

Let me guess.....'Baga Chipz'?

It is usually working class stereotypes, too - certainly in British drag.

Woo! I've just been there and RuPaul has gone. No replacement. Coincidence?

Love this
I work at the BBC and can confirm that promotional strategy is not influenced by the mumsnet feminism boards

As for others on the show, their humour depended on cheap laughs derived from calling women 'slags', 'Essex girls' and 'slappers'...

And yet, Cheryl Hole's sister (a genuine real life Essex girl!) appeared to be so proud of her brother and his act. In fact, all the relatives who came on the show (mums and sisters) seemed to be very proud of their son/brother.

What was it John Lennon said?

"Before Elvis there was nothing"

I work at the BBC and can confirm that promotional strategy is not influenced by the mumsnet feminism boards

it would be super if the BBC promotional strategy was influenced by not being women hating woke acolytes of Queer Theory. Think you can swing it hangonamo ?

I work at the BBC and can confirm that promotional strategy is not influenced by the mumsnet feminism boards

But their wider strategy has to be responsive to criticism of its out-put; certainly as a public broadcaster using public funds. The debate about drag is growing, and it is not just on Mumsnet.

Mumsnet is a gathering place for all sorts of people; from all fields and walks of life.....people who jobs, occupations, skills, experience qualify them in all sorts of ways.The quaint idea that it is just white, middle class mummies bears no relation to reality. It obviously provides a few people with a laugh, though

Cheryl Hole

Nice! They must be proud.

In fact, all the relatives who came on the show (mums and sisters) seemed to be very proud of their son/brother

Mums and sisters, aunts and grannies tend always to be supportive......they are women after all......Every Pride event is attended by these loving women....doesn't disguise the misogyny is much of drag, though.

It does feel like the BBC has lost sight of the fact that it's publicly funded - i.e. paid for by the people here, the people @hangonamo briefly stopped by the chuckle at for thinking they should have any influence on promotional strategy

give your head a wobble - seriously

Mums and sisters, aunts and grannies tend always to be supportive......they are women after all......Every Pride event is attended by these loving women....doesn't disguise the misogyny is much of drag, though.

Various female judges as well. They seem to love the acts. Are they complicit in enabling misogyny?

In fact, even Cheryl (ex-Cole) guest judged one episode. She didn't seem to find her Drag counterpart offensive. In fact she seemed really flattered.

During the show (in the make up sections) there are often discussions between the Queens regarding their inspirations and role models. I'd say the vast majority talk about all their mothers (who in many cases raised them) but also female icons.

If anything, these Drag Queens idolise women. They don't hate them.