Ru Paul's Drag Race FOI request?

[WineIsMyCarb]

Given that the BBC does not allow 3rd party advertisers, is an FOI request the right way to go about finding out if the headline slot on BBC iPlayer for RuPaul's Drag Race is paid for? Have had wine, am cross. Sick of the fucking sight of him. (Follows previous thread about iplayer not having an algorithm and others' about drag being misogynistic in large parts).

Some posters just want it to be an echo chamber, which is sad

No most people want a genuine and honest and open debate. But to do that you have to be prepared to actively engage and deal with details too - rather than just dismiss. Give examples, counter arguments with alternative evidence, and so on......

Ok then, engage with my points about blackface. Deal with the fact actual black feminists object to the term.

Have you heard of, Birth of a Nation?

It's the worst type of cultural appropriation and the only reason it's being done, is the trans thing.

Do you think there are no ‘actual black feminists’ on this board?

TRAs and libfems are lightning quick to dismiss black feminists who disagree with them. Just look at how they turned on Linda Bellos.

From what I've read, many of same black feminists still are concerned about trans activism and the rolling back of women's rights, they just object to the term womanface. I haven't use the term anywhere, and I haven't focussed on trans issues, it's drag that's offensive. I've always found it unpleasant, but didn't have the confidence to trust my gut and explore why before.

Ok then, engage with my points about blackface. Deal with the fact actual black feminists object to the term

Make some more points then.....The ones you made have been dealt with and responded to, with equivalent examples given.

Not all black women agree at all..... because not all women agree, as we have seen here, on any one issue, regardless of their skin colour or race. As someone has already said the appropriation of similar terms seems to be the issue, if there is one; not the comparison in itself.

It's the worst type of cultural appropriation and the only reason it's being done, is the trans thing

Have you noticed how it is only you that is going on about " the trans thing"? This thread is about drag, and more specifically about Ru Paul's Drag Race. You can't evade discussion simply by saying it is "all about the trans thing" ( perhaps on some other appropriate thread, we can discuss what it is you mean by " the trans thing"?)

I don't watch it but my teen daughter loves RuPaul.

I always gave him a lot of kudos for being highly GC and outspoken about the Trans Activist Agenda. He's got no time for that and has been dragged through the dirt (pun accidental) for it.
Unless he has magically had a change of heart about this then I applaud him.

I've got nothing against RuPaul personally, he seems like a decent guy and doesn't come across as misogynistic as other drag acts I've seen.

Here is one woman's take on it:

"It is a form of black face and I, a black woman, would argue that it's a form that's been around way longer than black face. Men have been characterizing women since the ancient Greeks! Why is it okay to keep characterizing women and not black folk? How is it any different? Oppressed people sometimes don't want to rock the boat or they accept unacceptable behavior because it feels "normal" or "default".
Being a woman is like being black in so many ways; or should I say being black is like being a woman in so many ways. Even black men that experience racism will somehow magically NOT see how racism is no different from sexism. He will go and step on a woman right after getting his ass beat by a white cop!
I've been searching my brain for ways to bridge the "race gap" in feminism. The only answer I have is for everyone to search for similarities, don't ignore differences and don't belittle each other's experiences. The Radical in Radical feminism means that we don't just step out of the box, we burn that mf'er! The moment all women come together is the moment we will create great change!"

@Justhadathought

You mentioned Seahorse.

And no, you haven't responded to anything I have said.

Your POV is basically that anyone who disagrees with you is thick and shouldn't be here.

Echo chamber thinking.

And another:

"I am a black woman from the USA. I use the term woman face too, but drag simply doesn't have the same connotation of black face nor history of black face in the USA. That said women should find drag offensive(especially since derogatory language is used about women-- calling women fish, etc). I don't know why this level of mocking is normalized"

Yes, I have, Here:

Even if you hate the language used, you cannot compare drag to racist oppression, rape and murder that black face is associated with

"Why can't we?

Are you aware that women are beaten, murdered, sexually assaulted and raped every day - while being called these sorts of names? And that these sorts of words are used on women in pornography to degrade and demean them, and to imply that women actually even enjoy their own debasement?

How many times women have these words and names shouted at them in the street, while they are just going about their lives?

Are you really suggesting that none of this is equivalent?"

And another:

"I'm a black woman, and while the historical context of blackface is /far/ worse, I still think it's a fair comparison. They're not the same, but they're similar. And they're both bad"

@Justhadathought you quoting black women from the US shows that you are just simply a privileged white women.

If your arguments are strong enough they would stand up without quoting women with less privilege than you in society.

ColaFreezePop
She was quoting them as a direct response to thefluffysideofgrey who was the one who brought up that some black women have objected to the term 'womanface'. She was quoting in order to counter the claim and to show there is a variety of opinion among black women. In fact, it was vaguely racist of thefluffysideofgrey to claim that black women are an homogenous mass and use them so shamelessly to try to score points (which failed, as this thread isn't about the validity of the term 'womanface' in any case, but about how drag is degrading to women). The arguments that drag are offensive DO stand up without quoting anyone, that's what was happening until thefluffysideofgrey kept bringing up 'the trans thing' and 'black women', derailing the thread.

Really?

I said some black people. Some. I'm not the one claiming that any particular black woman speaks for all. Hence the qualifier 'some'. That was deliberate. Because I'm not an idiot.

The objections to drag cone from the trans thing.

The whole point of this thread is that the OP thinks there's some kind of agenda behind Ru Paul.

What might that be?

Also, I didn't mention seahorse either.

The objections to drag cone from the trans thing.

The whole point of this thread is that the OP thinks there's some kind of agenda behind Ru Paul.

I think 'the trans thing' as you call it has made more women aware of how many men at worst hate us, and at best are indifferent to our welfare. So if you are asking if the misogyny of trans activism has brought to the fore how much men hate women and as a result make us see our relationships with men in a different light, then yes, that may be so. What of it? You keep on mentioning 'the trans thing' but not elaborating, what exactly do you mean? What do you mean, that the OP thinks there's an 'agenda' behing RuPaul?

If your arguments are strong enough they would stand up without quoting women with less privilege than you in society

You have no idea who i am , or what background I'm from. So don't be so presumptuous. Besides the quotations were evidence that not all women think alike on every issue, regardless of the skin colour or race.

This was, of course, in the context of a discussion with someone who simply offers accusations and slurs, but no evidence themselves.

I've made plenty of 'my own' arguments - but when you debate, and when you are trying to argue a case you provide evidence and some level of detail to back up what you are saying.

From everything i have seen from the TRA activists and allies who come on to this forum, they have little other to offer other than ' Terfs', 'bigots', 'Transphobic'; and also, as you have shown, accusations of some sort of privilege or other.

One of the main problems with intersectionality is that is is hopelessly divisive; nurturing difference and conflict along various hierarchies of oppression.

*The whole point of this thread is that the OP thinks there's some kind of agenda behind Ru Paul8

No, the point of this thread is to discuss the inherent misogyny of much drag - as evidenced by Ru Paul's Drag race.

Also, some points and comparisons have been made between the offensiveness of drag and the offensiveness of 'blackface'. The quotes I provided for you was an example of some evidence that many black women agree that drag is offensive, even if many of them do not see it as such an overtly extreme example as 'blackface'.

Trying to use arguments about race to attempt to discredit critiques of drag just won't wash on here.

The objections to drag cone from the trans thing

Rather than just say " The trans thing" - why don't you develop that argument? What do you mean by 'the trans thing'? And in what ways do you think it is being linked to drag?

I've already explained that the issue of drag is a separate and long standing one. Dislike of drag goes back long before the advent of transgenderism as we know and understand it today. But, yes, what has changed the whole climate for many women, is the misogyny of the radical trans agenda. Many women are no longer prepared to tolerate that which is offensive to them - in the name of solidarity with gay male friends.

I said some black people. Some. I'm not the one claiming that any particular black woman speaks for all. Hence the qualifier 'some'. That was deliberate. Because I'm not an idiot.
I don't mean to nit-pick, but as you are so adamant, actually, you said 'plenty of' not 'some'. Unless you said 'some' on one of the many abusive comments you made that have been deleted by the moderators, that is.

And hear we have why I don't bother with the feminism boards normally.

It's just name calling - you're abusive, you're racist, you're derailing the thread, nobody engages with anything.

It's turning feminism into a pointless, self-serving echo chamber which achieves nothing.

I don't suppose it's actually hurting anyone. Leave the dafties to it.

thefluffysideofgrey
You were the one being abusive, which is why so many of your posts were deleted. I haven't called you any names, and I'd still like to know what you mean by 'the trans thing' you keep on referring to? I've suggested my interpretation of this, but I haven't heard yours - do you have one? Or is it just another smearing comment?

It's just name calling - you're abusive, you're racist, you're derailing the thread, nobody engages with anything

You are the only one who has name called....read back over the thread.
Nobody has called you racist...read back over the thread.
It is you who fails to engage.....

and then you say you are being called an idiot...None of this is true.

If anything it is the other way around.

Perhaps you don't engage on the feminism board, because you are not able to develop cogent arguments very well, or articulate what it is you want to say - except in vague, accusatory ways?