Ru Paul's Drag Race FOI request?

[WineIsMyCarb]

Given that the BBC does not allow 3rd party advertisers, is an FOI request the right way to go about finding out if the headline slot on BBC iPlayer for RuPaul's Drag Race is paid for? Have had wine, am cross. Sick of the fucking sight of him. (Follows previous thread about iplayer not having an algorithm and others' about drag being misogynistic in large parts).

The thing about TV is choice ...if you dont like it..then don't watch it!

That's not the issue here - it's the massive advertising banner that comes up on the top of the BBC IPlayer page.

BUT - I've just gone to player and it's not there anymore. Have beeb been reading?

Woo! I've just been there and RuPaul has gone. No replacement. Coincidence?

Of course not fluffy misogynistic attitudes/opinions have never been used to justify murdering, raping, and oppression of women.... 🤔

I really don't see how anyone can say it's not comparable to blackface - maybe not as bad - but definitely comparable.

Blackface - white men painting their faces black to look like a comedic version of black people and doing funny dances/songs.

Drag - men painting their faces and donning wigs/dresses to look like a comedic version of women, and doing funny songs/dances. And in the case of Drag Race, using horrible language about women as well.

Why should one be acceptable, and the other not?

Black face was used to justify murder. I don't think that drag has ever had that association

Maybe in the U.S...... but still don't see why just wearing black make- up to play a black character is any different to a man/drag artist wearing make-up and adopting feminine poses to play a woman. It isn't!

And as the poster above suggests, drag goes further than anyone would even contemplate, these days, with blacking up for a role/performance, in that drag artists use offensive language and names which have long been considered oppressive when applied to women; as well as insinuating that women's bodies are dirty, disgusting or smelly.

I love it. Binge watch with my 75 year old Grandma.

Even if you hate the language used, you cannot compare drag to racist oppression, rape and murder that black face is associated with

Why can't we?

Are you aware that women are beaten, murdered, sexually assaulted and raped every day - while being called these sorts of names? And that these sorts of words are used on women in pornography to degrade and demean them, and to imply that women actually even enjoy their own debasement?

How many times women have these words and names shouted at them in the street, while they are just going about their lives?

Are you really suggesting that none of this is equivalent?

It's not drag artists or even gay men, who generally beat, rape or murder women.

Drag artists are not our oppressors.

It's not about women. Drag has never been about women. We're spectators, not actors.

It's the trans thing again. Some women are looking for ammunition to use against trans women. So they're picking on a group that they think are connected. That's really very unpleasant when you think about it.

It's not the trans thing. Drag itself is offensive to women.

Drag has never been about women. We're spectators, not actors.

What does that mean?

Who are they dressing up as then - if not women - and why are they using derogatory language about women and female bodies?

It's the trans thing again. Some women are looking for ammunition to use against trans women. So they're picking on a group that they think are connected. That's really very unpleasant when you think about it.
Men in drag know they're men and are performing stereotypes. 'The trans thing' has got nothing to do with it.
I'm pretty sure black and white minstrels didn't go around committing violence against black people either, but they perpetuated stereotypes that demeaned black people, and made violence more acceptable. In Drag Race I've heard 'slag', 'slapper', 'Essex girl' etc I had a look at some clips to see what all the fuss was about. There was one where they were standing around and imagining if they were straight men, which of the other queens they would snog, marry or avoid, which led to comments about who they'd run a mile from and who was a 'good time girl' who'd be good just for a snog. If they WERE straight men, people would see more clearly they're putting women into categories according to class, how fuckable they are and whether they are 'slags' or not, because they're gay they get away with it. They don't play characters, just sexist stereotypes. Women are so used to sexism, I think there's a lot of going along with it to be supportive, but it's all very one way. I think some women are under the illusion that gay men like women more than straight men do and are more understanding and empathetic towards us, which is not necessarily the case.

Drag artists are not our oppressors|

And yet they contribute to the ongoing devaluing and demeaning of women, and frequently display disgust at female bodies. This is meant to be funny?

It's the trans thing again. Some women are looking for ammunition to use against trans women. So they're picking on a group that they think are connected. That's really very unpleasant when you think about it

Wrong again! Maybe one day you will remove the scales from your eyes and see.

How the radical trans agenda does inter-sect, though, is that in both instances it is men dressing up and acting out female fantasies and stereotypes - and calling it liberation.

I'm not sure why you are posting on a women's rights forum when it is clear you have little idea about the history and the struggle of the women's movement; and exactly what the issues are, and always have been.

Your attitude is totally dismissive and in that way, typical of many TRA's, and also, it seems, typical of a good number of gay men.

It's not the trans thing. Drag itself is offensive to women

That's the thing though, you don't speak for all women!
Why can't we enjoy drag shows without being offended?
It's a complicated topic as obviously some women are offended but there's also lots who aren't!
We're not all the same.
I'm watching and finding some of the humour on it funny - last Thursday's episode was great (never watched drag before the UK show)
If you don't like, don't watch as someone upthread said.

The drag artists have sod all to do with trans- but the current objections do. That is why there are many references to trans on this thread, that's the 'agenda' that's being talked about on this thread.

Black face was direct descendent of slavery. It was also physically carried out by the KKK. The KKK did in fact rape and murder people for being black. To try and appropriate that is wrong.

There are also plenty of black people saying that they do not want womanface to be a thing. Yet somehow their request about language is not valid, yet requests to gay men to change their language are?

It doesn't have to offend every single woman to be offensive to women.

I find it offensive to women, I find derogatory language about female bodies offensive to women. And I'm clearly far from alone.

I think some women are under the illusion that gay men like women more than straight men do and are more understanding and empathetic towards us, which is not necessarily the case

Absolutely! Though, personally, I've been well and truly disabused of that idea over the last year or so. It is one of the most disappointing realisations for me. In fact it mainly straight men, who are supportive of the need for women only spaces, and women's sports being for females only...many gay men simply seem to say " Just suck it up, and stop being a transphobe".

The

Oops. Juggling phone... pressed combo of buttons...

The drag artists have sod all to do with trans- but the current objections do. That is why there are many references to trans on this thread, that's the 'agenda' that's being talked about on this thread

They do inter-sect in certain ways, you are right. But long before there was such a thing as 'non-binary' and 'transgenderism' ( it was always transexualism) women have disliked Drag. I was around gay male culture a lot in the 1980's..and always hated it - even though I never said so, because we thought it our duty to support our gay male friends.

The thing is this looks like it was always a one way relationship though. Remember 'fag hags'? What 's that about then, if not disrespect?

Look fluffygrey - women have been treated as slaves too - we have been oppressed by men - all men, regardless of sexuality - not allowed to own property, treated as chattel by the law, and by fathers/husbands, until civil rights movements. Women are still raped and murdered, with, it seems little redress in law.

And yet drag still goes on, becoming it seems, even more offensive and women-hating as time goes on. Misogyny - it's just all the rage now.

*That is why there are many references to trans on this thread, that's the 'agenda' that's being talked about on this thread8

This thread is about drag, in particular Ru Paul's Drag Race.

The forum as a whole contains all sorts of threads on various women's rights issues. And yes, there are many of radical Transgenderism and its implications for women

Many on radical transgenderism For the reason this is perhaps the largest most urgent threat to women's rights right now.

@Justhadathought

"Wrong again! Maybe one day you will remove the scales from your eyes and see."

And

"I'm not sure why you are posting on a women's rights forum when it is clear you have little idea about the history and the struggle of the women's movement; and exactly what the issues are, and always have been."

So you think I'm thick? Lovely!

I rarely bother with the feminism boards anymore because of this kind of thing. Everything just degenerates into accusations of stupidity, people correcting grammar and spelling or just telling people to go away.

Some posters just want it to be an echo chamber, which is sad.

Women are still raped and murdered, with, it seems little redress in law

To then extent that the growing number of women killed during so-called 'consensual sex acts' is truly an outrage. Man kills woman. Defence: It was 'consensual'.

So you think I'm thick? Lovely!

I'm not one for name calling, and never have been. What I said was you seem to have very little awareness of the history of the women's movement and its key tenets. Language and words have always been about power, and therefore important. Remember 'Man Made Language' by Dale Spender? Classic feminist text.

And feminism has always been about countering stereotypical and negative portrayals. How people and groups are portrayed, and who gets to shape those portrayals is important.