Ru Paul's Drag Race FOI request?

[WineIsMyCarb]

Given that the BBC does not allow 3rd party advertisers, is an FOI request the right way to go about finding out if the headline slot on BBC iPlayer for RuPaul's Drag Race is paid for? Have had wine, am cross. Sick of the fucking sight of him. (Follows previous thread about iplayer not having an algorithm and others' about drag being misogynistic in large parts).

Drag isn’t trans....it seems they are mostly gay and doing terrible caricatures. It’s about that rather than women

'Being trans' is not the point. It is about demeaning and offensive portrayals of female stereotypes; using language that most of us here have had used on us in our lifetimes - to oppress and insult us.
Also insinuations that female bodies and genitalia are disgusting.

For someone who I imagine is gay, where have you been - not recognise what liberation struggles are about, or what they involve. Language and its uses, and portrayals is at the very heart of it.

I haven't watched this and never would, but let me get this straight - men dressed up as women on this show are inviting attention/ridicule/dislike etc in the public eye - but a similar man dressed up as a woman and entering women's toilets or changing rooms, I am supposed to ignore and accept that as 'normal'? I don't get it.

Straight male comedians would never get away with referring to women the way drag acts do. I think it used get more of a free pass because gay men were of a class that was less privileged in society, so most women were sympathetic to drag even if they didn't find it very funny. Now, it's more acceptable to be gay, you could argue gay men have more social clout then women, and so it feels like drag is 'punching down'.

*But this? Just makes the cause look silly8

The women's rights board is not just about radical transgender ideology, you know. It covers all issues as they relate to women's rights and the portrayal of women in society.

Not women- terfs or whatever. Since when was it offensive? It's a statement of fact surely? What's the correct term then?

No woman here would refer to themselves using that term. Surely you know that? It appears that you have visited the board with a preconception in mind - having been told, maybe, that this is were 'TERFS' post and discuss issues.

TERFS is a term coined by Radical Trans activists to dismiss and show hatred towards women who have issues with that ideology and its demands.

I don't want to watch it but I can tell you it appears there because the only way it can be watched is on iplayer. The majority of programmes on there have been broadcast. They need to push it to justify the cost and also to make it easy to navigate to for people coming to iplayer to watch it.

It's not top of my list of things to be concerned about when there is other stuff going on at the BBC.

Now, it's more acceptable to be gay, you could argue gay men have more social clout then women, and so it feels like drag is 'punching down'

Absolutely! Now it just suggests the type of misogyny that is common to male privilege.

If you want to get really up in arms about it, I posted here a while ago because it was being heavily promoted by CBBC. I admit to finding that odd.

It's not top of my list of things to be concerned about when there is other stuff going on at the BBC

It doesn't have to be at the top of your list, though, to act on concerns. It annoys the hell out of me....having to sit and watch the adverts each evening at peak viewing time. I've made my complaint , anyway.

And as an issue it is now becoming more recognised as being one: with it recently being discussed on Woman's Hour, for example. The whole association of Queer Politics and Theory and the merging of the Trans and LGB movements has brought many issues to the fore.

It was inevitable - but not many wanted to listen.

If you want to get really up in arms about it

Nobody is 'up in arms'. This is a discussion thread. We are discussing it.

But, yes, it has now become more of a presenting issue than it used to be. not because it was never offensive or distasteful to many of us - it was - but because the climate has changed, and because the BBC has fallen down various rabbit holes - many of which ignore or minimise these sorts of issues, and how women actually perceive or feel about them.

All of this is assuming that drag is about women. It's not. It's the space that gay men have had for centuries.

Attacking it seems silly and self defeating. It's not trans. They're men putting on a theatrical performance.

It's not trans. They're men putting on a theatrical performance.
Yes, we know. It's a stereotyped, grotesque portrayal of (usually) working class women by men, something that straight men wouldn't get away with in this day and age. For me personally, not all drag artists and not all elements of drag are offensive, and it's not something I'll lose sleep over as it's easy enough to avoid. But the comments about 'slags' and other derogatory elements are where it crosses the line. Let's put the shoe on the other foot and imagine this was women taking the piss out of gay men - perhaps a performance where a woman is dressed as a gay man crying for his mummy because he's been beaten up for being gay again, and having the audience laughing about it. It touches the same kind of raw nerve for women by calling them slags, or talking about them having abortions etc. I think it just doesn't occur to men, gay or straight, that women perhaps don't like all the ridiculous social roles we're expected to perform, and think that's just what we are.

All of this is assuming that drag is about women. It's not. It's the space that gay men have had for centuries

That is understood. Like women reclaiming the use of the word CUNT to empower themselves and not be afraid to speak its name.

The difference is, though, that gay men have been oppressed because they were considered 'effeminate', 'girly -boy' 'unmanly', 'womanly'.....their perceived 'femininity' and lack of adherence to traditional masculine stereotypes to be scorned. to be seen as a woman is to automatically have lower status. " Don't be a big girl's blouse"; " you're like an old woman...." and so on.

So in embodying that which is despised and making it theatrical somehow liberates gay men to be themselves.

The issue is that the female stereotypes and portrayals of femininity most often used in drag fall into the same old misogynistic tropes about women, their bodies and their sexuality.

BBC embroiled in 'misogyny' row as drag performers criticise RuPaul's Drag Race over 'offensive' language

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/11/16/bbc-embroiled-misogyny-row-drag-performers-criticise-rupauls/amp/

Thanks for sharing. Rose Collis is spot on.

Not gay but still not offended.

Some of the earlier contestants were a bit much tbh. He current ones are very much about performance.

I can’t get too up in arms about it.

Drag has always been about a ridiculous caricature ...nobody thinks women behave like that. ...or if they do I’d question their cognitive ability. They take a character and drag it to extremes.

Drag has always been about a ridiculous caricature ...nobody thinks women behave like that. ...or if they do I’d question their cognitive ability. They take a character and drag it to extremes

How is dressing up with black make-up and, say, singing Soul or R n' B any different, in your view? Why is one offensive, and not the other?

I accept that.

I wouldn’t feel happy and wouldn’t watch this, so you are quite right there.

Then again comedy and performance is full of impersonation which can be achieved without blacking up etc.

Surely this is similar no?

French & Saunders dressed up as those two men watching Miss World/whatever and getting aroused. Is that different because men are generally not a minority group ?

BBC embroiled in 'misogyny' row as drag performers criticise RuPaul's Drag Race over 'offensive' language

The BBC is just coming out with the standard excuses for what goes on in much of Drag. "Empowering, inclusive etc" Empowering for which group of people, and at which group's expense, is the question?

Drag Race has also been criticised by trans groups for being transphobic, in its intention to draw a distinction between gay men pretending to be women, and Trans women believing they actually are women. And that trans women performers were not allowed.

Drag acts have been criticised by trans groups at Pride events too - as being insulting and transphobic to men transitioning to women; making a mockery of them........sort of thing......

So it is interesting to see how the blurring/merging of the LGB with the TQI....is now impacting on traditional gay male culture and in ways ,I don't imagine, ever could have been predicted.

Then again comedy and performance is full of impersonation which can be achieved without blacking up etc

Blacking the face is just wearing make-up, surely, to make yourself resemble that which are are trying to 'perform' or characterise? In the same way that drag queens wear make-up and have feminine hair styles and clothing, and walk in stereotypical feminine ways? No?

Is blacking up inherently offensive, even if the performer does not use demeaning language and mimic negative racial stereotypes?

Is it offensive simply because they are white and are mimicking the 'look' of someone who is black ( with black people being an oppressed group in relation to white people)

This really could do with some unpacking and explaining - so we can all be on the same page going forward.

French & Saunders dressed up as those two men watching Miss World/whatever and getting aroused. Is that different because men are generally not a minority group ?

that was punching up DuckWillow, it;s quite different

The thing about TV is choice ...if you dont like it..then don't watch it!
I hate period drama....I pay a licence fee to have it on the BBC...guess what ? I choose not to watch it!

40 something here..I love Drag Race ...its very witty and these guys make most if their outfits themselves! Talented guys.

The thing about TV is choice ...if you don't like it..then don't watch it!

You are aware this is a women's rights board and this is seen by many as being a feminist issue?

And the issue is more than just about personal preference, it is about the inherent misogyny of much drag - and how we object to our license money going on promoting this ugliness on prime time TV.

Drag has had a free ride for a long time, because many women have been prepared to suppress their own feelings about it, in order to support their 'brothers' supposed expression of 'liberation'.

But the distinct lack of fellow sympathy coming in the opposite direction ( & in many instances downright disregard and opprobrium) has caused many of us to sit up and finally speak our truth.

Black face was used to justify murder. I don't think that drag has ever had that association.

Even if you hate the language used, you cannot compare drag to racist oppression, rape and murder that black face is associated with.

Also, drag is not being done by the main oppressors of women- straight men.

It was white people doing blackface- who were the oppressors of black people in early twentieth century America.

It's just not comparable or even appropriate.