Help me understand...”Modest Fashion”

[OhDear2200]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-50067975

There is something that bugs me about this and I need the MN feminists to help me out (be gentle it’s my first post in this area though a regular reader).

Sooo what is it that bugs me?

Why do we need commentary on women (yep no mention of men) and what we wear? Or am I over reacting is it just a conversation about fashion?

But if a man wore baggy trousers it’s not called modest is it??! It’s called wearing baggy trousers. Why is a woman modest or not modest.

Help me either get a grip or understand this better???

Sorry link not worked, don’t know what I’m doing wrong?

Also if I decide to wear a short skirt and tight trousers what does that make me? A tart? Immodest?

Surely modesty is not a concrete concept and who is setting the definition?

Clicky link

www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-50067975

Links don’t automatically get made clicky in opening posts to deter spammers

Put around your link and it will be clicky

I think the reason ‘modest’ as a descriptor is uncomfortable is exactly that - the opposite is seen as tarty or immodest. It’s a value judgment - modesty is a virtue. So all the women who are not dressing ‘modestly’ are not virtuous.

I think it’s a mild version of why some women find hijabs or burkas uncomfortable - that the ‘choice’ to wear them is not a real choice - it’s being imposed upon them to ensure they are seen as virtuous. And that those who don’t wear them are seen as ‘asking for it’ in terms of unwanted attention etc.

The word ‘modest’ is generally a sign that something’s up

Will hang around and find out why I'm wrong, but...

I like it. I like clothes which look smart and fashionable but aren't attempting to look sexy.

I agree they shouldn't need a name.

Too much women's fashion is designed for the male gaze. This pushes back.

“Modest” fashion is not about women dressing how they want to dress. It’s about women taking responsibility for the behaviour of men. Not putting temptation their way. I’ve seen it described as being “kind” to men.

Just to clarify I have no issue with the clothes and agree they look lovely (though I do have an issue with cold ankles).

But you know what I also think someone in a short skirt looks lovely.

However the most important point is that surely it’s none of my business what people wear.

Fuck so as I sit here in my skinnies I’m being unkind to men.

Yes, I like the look generally too picklemepopcorn, I just object to the reason a woman who describes the look as ‘modest’ has for dressing that way

It’s not about being warm / practical / liking the way you look, it’s still about the male gaze

Modest is low key, not drawing attention to yourself.
The tight trousers and a top that fits but doesn't show flesh, I think of as stylish smart and snappy.
We were explaining to a friend and showed them how you can cover everything, but hint at curves and look amazing .

@mummy2017 - I get that but why is it modest? Why is this not applied to men?

It's not something I could get worked up over. Some women want to wear clothes that cover more skin than what is the norm in fashion. Sometimes those clothes/styles can be hard to find and modest fashion is just a category that allows those women to find what they want more easily.

You could try and find a different word for them to use instead, but in general people don't like imposed language changes so I wouldn't bother.

It bothered me too. A lot.

If it has been about how some women who have (culturally/religiously or otherwise imposed) restrictions on what they wear seek to adapt mainstream styles to conform with their beliefs, then fine. If it had been about recognising women dressing for themselves (and a lot of high fashion is that) and these being the new in favour styles, then that would also be fine. If it had been about reasons why women are moving away from tight fitting/revealing clothes, then that would also have been fine (and potentially interesting). But it wasn’t, as people above have rightly said, it was about separating the modest from the immodest, which is horrible.

A shame, as the trend is very much up my street.

Why is the way a woman dresses modest or not modest?

Do I now have to worry that I am not modest enough for fashion?

“ Fuck so as I sit here in my skinnies I’m being unkind to men.”

Yep. And why would you want to do that to a friend or family member? I’m sure I saved the advertisement- I’ll have a look.

I might be missing the point here but aren't these just bog standard clothes? What is supposed to be 'modest' about them exactly?

“Modest” is problematic because it places the onus on the wearer of the clothing to control the reactions of the viewer. It also can become a constraint on the wearer. There is nothing wrong with choosing to wear a long skirt because it is comfortable, but If the next week the woman wants to go out in a miniskirt, that should be her prerogative.

There are also geographic areas where woman face harassment for not conforming to modest clothing.

I try to dress “modestly”. By that, I mean no low cut tops or short skirts or deliberately sexy clothes.

My husband also tries to dress “modestly”. He wouldn’t wear tight trousers that show the shape of his crotch or go shirtless on the beach.

Neither of us has such an amazing body that we think we’re likely to cause great temptation to anybody!

Neither of us judges others who dress differently. I suppose I feel mildly uncomfortable if someone’s outfit is extremely revealing, but I hope I don’t show it - and it’s my problem not theirs, anyway.

Modest fashion isn’t necessarily sexist or oppressive.

That’s interesting FriedasCarLoad

What’s the value in you and your husband dressing ‘modestly’?

I popped out to my local Tesco earlier. I didn't see anyone who wasn't dressed 'modestly' by these standards.

These aren't anything other than normal, every day clothes.

Modest fashion has been around for years, Shammie tells Newsbeat.
"If we go back to Britain in about the 1950s ‎modest fashion was the norm. Everyone had longer hem lines and long sleeves."
Shammie could do with a history lesson on why the New Look was invented. Nothing to do with modesty.

“ Modest fashion isn’t necessarily sexist or oppressive.”

The fashion isn’t. The terminology is.

It’s shite because it’s about controlling women’s sexuality, as per usual.

The clothes themselves - fine. The label “modest” - absolutely fucking not fine. Vile, regressive, patriarchal, misogynist shit.

We’re not going to see a “modest” fashion trend for men, are we?

Because the male body is not the one permanently objectified by the gaze of the sex that is considerably more powerful; the male body is not the one that is vastly more prone to sexual violence and sexual control from those of the opposite sex.

2019 and women are still Madonna or whore while men still get the exclusive right to be full human beings.

Bollocks, bollocks, bollocks to it all.

I thought "modest" must have started out as a euphemism used by the fashion industry to help women from more conservative cultures filter for clothes on shopping websites. But I wish they'd chosen "sensible" instead, less loaded for those of us who like warm comfy clothes but think everyone has the right to dress as they like!