Help me understand...”Modest Fashion”

[OhDear2200]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-50067975

There is something that bugs me about this and I need the MN feminists to help me out (be gentle it’s my first post in this area though a regular reader).

Sooo what is it that bugs me?

Why do we need commentary on women (yep no mention of men) and what we wear? Or am I over reacting is it just a conversation about fashion?

But if a man wore baggy trousers it’s not called modest is it??! It’s called wearing baggy trousers. Why is a woman modest or not modest.

Help me either get a grip or understand this better???

Would I call it modest?
I guess I’ve always described it as a mix of boho and “mumsy”
I would consider calling it modest because to me that’s just a euphemism for “hidden” or “disguised” which is exactly what my clothes are about

To be honest I'm not sure "modest" being a euphemism for "hidden" or disguised" is much better. Those terms aren't quite as value laden as modest but, for me there's a world of difference between not wanting to wear, say a crop top and skin tight jeans (because frankly they would be uncomfortable and I'd look silly) and choosing a full skirted dress which would flatter me and "disguising" or "hiding" my body.

Ambivert
It’s pretty much nothing to do with men and everything to do with judgement from other women.

Exactly. One article I posted stated that it is dressing for the female gaze, not the male gaze. Whether that is to be presentable and comfortable or to impress other women, the entire spectrum is still a feminist way to dress.

Plan- you said “ Dressing revealingly for young women is advised and celebrated in Western society as a feminist statement of sexual empowerment.”. Could you say some more about this and provide some evidence? Because it certainly isn’t my experience.

Plan- you said “ Dressing revealingly for young women is advised and celebrated in Western society as a feminist statement of sexual empowerment.”. Could you say some more about this and provide some evidence? Because it certainly isn’t my experience.

That’s a bit of a Lib Fem view on things isn’t it. Bit like those who think stripping and sex work is empowering and therefore must be feminist.

No rad fem worth her salt would advise other women to wear revealing clothes or celebrate them doing so. I get the feeling this board is definitely leaning more towards rad fem, thankfully.

@ShonaAndTheWaterHorse

But I literally do dress to disguise the fact I don’t want to have to wear a proper bra. I literally am hiding my body because I can’t be arsed presenting it in the way society expects 🤷‍♀️

Are we really going to have to go through the 'women are responsible for enforcing societies misogynist rules' discussion?

That’s a bit of a Lib Fem view on things isn’t it. Bit like those who think stripping and sex work is empowering and therefore must be feminist.

Actually I think that's what's known as "making things up". Possibly by a visitor to our planet whose only previous exposure to humans has been Love Island.

Just read through the thread and did a bit of looking online and there does seem to be a definite move towards what is described as modest. I looked on H&M at dresses (I assume H&M are to the younger end of the market) and there are some rather odd-looking brown floral 'rent a tents' that even me knocking on for 50 wouldn't wear - they look like you're wearing a remade 70's duvet cover. I agree with Oliversmummysarmy that a lot would simply not be practical for me as I'm short and even in petit sizes they tend to trail and end up frayed and torn and in any case I hate wearing long skirts as they wrap around my legs and impede movement. I have only 1 pencil skirt and I only wear it when I don't have to walk anywhere.

But what real-world implications does the word modest used in this sense have? Someone mentioned that words have real-life impacts on the perception of realities such as the way groups dress/behave etc. I live in a heavily Islamic area in a major city and when I wear a halter-necked knee-length sundress I am often spat at by men and sometimes even whilst wearing leggings and a short skirt to the extent I now avoid the local shopping area and time going out on a Friday. In the eyes of these men I will never be modest enough as I choose to dress normally and in line with the way I've always done. I've dressed in skimpy stuff in the past (was a goth) but it's always been my choice and I don't agree with some of the overly sexualised outfits I often see today (not that I could wear them anyway!).

Modest is a loaded word with the implication of consequences for women as a PP said it is not kind to women and will if allowed to gain traction in popular perception have implications on women's freedoms and activities.

I live in a heavily Islamic area in a major city and when I wear a halter-necked knee-length sundress I am often spat at by men and sometimes even whilst wearing leggings and a short skirt to the extent I now avoid the local shopping area and time going out on a Friday.
I can only assume those who argue that wearing modest clothes is just a fashion choice and choice = feminism either a) have never lived in such an area and experienced this kind of hostility, so are naive as to the harmful effects of 'modesty' on women's freedom or b) actually approve of the idea of 'modest' and believe that women really are responsible for men's abuse, or c) are trying to be 'inclusive' as priority, thus ignoring how to be inclusive of sexist ideals is harmful to women.