Break it down for me, GE edition

[jamrollyolly]

I was thinking how helpful it would be to have a GE special thread. If we could organise the main parties views and actions, it could help lurkers like me to articulate why we would or wouldn't vote for a party, or at all.

Lots of things get referred to, and I'm often not clear what happened, or at least not clear enough to explain to someone else.

For example, I hear, "I couldn't vote for Labour after Brighton", or references to being a non-man in the eyes of the greens. I seem to remember that the lib dems said those who didn't believe TWAW weren't welcome even before this week, but I lack detail.

And who was it that could see souls again?!

It’s Layla Moran who sees souls:

mobile.twitter.com/jameskirkup/status/1065232705548374016?lang=en

Thanks Grinich, sounds spooky( or just ridiculous). Lib Dem It is 2018. There is a Member of Parliament who says she can see into people's souls.
"I see someone in their soul and as a person. I do not really care whether they have a male body." - Layla Moran MP (in a debate about violence against women.)
Hansard: https

What I would say is that if you can’t vote for anyone do spoil your ballot. If you don’t dickhead A can say ‘i got 60% of the vote’ but only 30% of people voted. If 100% of people voted but that new 70% all spoiled their ballot dickhead A still has the same number of votes but can only say he got a way lower % of the vote. Makes much clearer their flimsy mandate.

The LibDems have told women they aren't welcome if they are gender critical - that is, if they support womens rights as outlined in the Equality Act.
www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/02/05/feminists-not-welcome-lib-dems-unless-support-gender-neutral/

They also want to abolish the badly named ''spousal veto'' and force partners of people who transition to gain a divorce. Which means they want them to say they are in a same sex relationship.
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3717872-Trans-Widows-the-Liberal-Democrats-and-the-Spousal-Veto?msgid=90818715

Labour want to reform the Equality act and the Gender Recognition Act top allow self identification.
If self ID is allowed for anyone other than people who have a DSD, there will be no such thing as a women only space or service. It will become impossible to challenge any man in a woman's space.
(we have already seen this happen, shamefully with the most vulnerable women in our society as men have been allowed to self identify and gain access to women only psychiatric wards, prisons, and domestic violence shelters)

They have already allowed people who self identify to use the Jo Cox program, which was supposed to help women into politics, and they allow men to self identify as women and gain places on an All Women Shortlists.

Thanks Inebriate that 'spousal veto' is an outrage.

The reasons why I'm spoiling my ballot are:

Greens = women are non-men, TWAW and NB are valid (and I still haven't forgotten A Challenor, have any of us?)

LibDems = as noted by Inebriati and the reply I got from the candidate in my constituency makes it clear he hasn't got a clue how to give a direct answer to a direct question

Liz Truss, Tory Women's Minister = single sex space need protecting (lovely thought but I can't vote Tory)

Labour = TWAW (although the sex based rights petition released yesterday is encouraging) Madigan and all those likewise

and not that it matters but

Women's Equality Party = TWAW

So unless you have a GC independent standing you're a bit stuffed for a GC vote and I say this as someone who is involved in local party politics for one of the above named parties.

http://www.votenone.org.uk/protestvotesscount.html?fbclid=IwAR0I1Oy5r0pqBH36jnyaTd1LxxT4PYA-qycNdp0LTlsIxuqWap7nEjbD70

The Layla Moran quote was her actual response to a direct question asking how would she feel about undressing next to a TW in a changing area (gym/swimming)...

in a serious parliamentary committee debate.

No Layla, TW are not women.

Thanks Holy, do you know how and when the Greens called us non men?

Also that piece about spoiling your ballot is super interesting, I have no one to vote for and am partly desperate to explain why I have no one to vote for.

The Layla Moran quote was her actual response to a direct question asking how would she feel about undressing next to a TW in a changing area.

It's worth reading exactly what she said in that exchange with David Davies.

David T. C. Davies
I hear what the hon. Lady is saying. May I bluntly ask her whether she would be happy sharing a changing room with somebody who was born male and had a male body?

Layla Moran
I believe that women are women, so if that person was a trans woman, I absolutely would. I just do not see the issue. As for whether they have a beard, which was one of the hon. Gentleman’s earlier comments, I dare say that some women have beards. There are all sorts of reasons why our bodies react differently to hormones. There are many forms of the human body. I see someone in their soul and as a person. I do not really care whether they have a male body.

I would check your local candidates. There may be an independent with voting for, or maybe your local candidate is sound even though party policy is silly.
My local Green candidate is a good guy - and let's face it, the Greens are not going to have any sway anyway - so he's getting my vote.

Here's a thread about how little of a shit the Lib Dems give about trans widows.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3717872-Trans-Widows-the-Liberal-Democrats-and-the-Spousal-Veto

Thanks Tinsel, I'd been emailing my local Lib Dem candidate this evening, I'm going to copy that first post and send it to him. It's inhuman!

OhHolyJesus I emailed my local Lib Den candidate 8 days ago & have heard a spectacular nothing. FYI.

I got a response within minutes. I'd asked a very specific question about women's prisons. He agreed that the abuse is horrific but said he didn't think post op trans women ( he actually used a term I'm not sure I'm allowed to use) should be placed in men's prisons. I agreed and hoped he would agree that pre op people shouldn't be put in women's prisons. No reply yet, probably won't now I copied over the beginning of that thread Tinsel Angel linked to! Ah well.

Wow, got a response back from the candidate. I posted this, taken from Tinsel's post,

Also wondered what you thought about this:

Did you know the Liberal Democrats are currently proposing changes to the Gender Recognition Act which could have the effect of trapping trans widows in same sex marriages against their will?

A woman could go from being in a hetrosexual marriage, to being in legally a same sex marriage, without her consent.

A motion was passed at the Liberal Democrat party conference (proposer Layla Moran MP ) to change the clause of the GRA which allows for one party to a marriage to have the marriage annulled / dissolved before the other party is able to be issued with a Gender Recognition Certificate.

Trans Activists inaccurately refer to this section of the GRA as the "Spousal Veto". It is not a veto. It does not prevent transition. At worst it might delay the issue of a GRC.

Never mind, you might think, the Lib Dems aren't going to get into power any time soon? Putting aside the possibility of a hung parliament in an imminent general election, the Lib Dems appear to not be able to wait to get into power to introduce this, as now Baroness Barker has submitted a private members bill in the House of Lords.

Google "spousal veto" and you will see pages of accustions that it can be used by an abusive controlling spouse to maliciously prevent their partner's transition. However no evidence is ever provided that this has ever happened. Those of you who have read the trans widows threads will have your own opinion of how likely this is.

Not all women in this situation will be able to get divorced. Some cannot get divorced for religious or cultural reasons. Maybe they can't afford it, or maybe their husband will refuse to consent to an Unreasonable Behaviour petition and drag the marriage out for 5 years or more

Sounds awful, do you support this?

Got a response saying, " I'm with you there!"

That's great @jamrollyolly would you mind posting it on the Spousal "Veto" thread, if you haven't already?

Yes of course Tinsel!

"I see someone in their soul and as a person. I do not really care whether they have a male body." - Layla Moran MP (in a debate about violence against women.)

I was sitting behind her, with a group of other GC women, when she said it.

I have NO idea how we managed to keep quiet but at least one reaction was captured on Parliament TV & turned into a gif which sums our feelings up perfectly: tenor.com/view/layla-moran-lib-dem-liberal-democrats-self-id-soul-gazer-gif-13201124

Oh thank you EmpressLesbian that’s one to savour (and save).

Wow Empress, good job no one was drinking tea at the time!

Does anyone have any more info on the greens non man thing? When I say to people I can't vote green because they called women non men, I need more facts! ( and so do other lurkers too.)

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/feminists-mock-green-party-young-womens-invite-to-non-men-a6987061.html

From 2016:
“ Women/non-men who are Young Greens can find and join our Facebook group 'Young Greens Women'”, they tweeted on 26 March.”

Wow that's clear, thanks Grinich, they clearly don't want my vote...

A few screenshots