Marks and Spencer have fallen, part III; we’re gonna need a bigger boat

[MrsSnippyPants]

Fresh thread in case part 2 fills up overnight.
I am yet to receive a reply to my third email, have been furiously tweeting, and as am now pursuing the options available to me as a shareholder.
Still crossing fingers for John Lewis!

My M&S store only lets males dressed as women in to the lingerie fitting room. Males dressed as men are turned away. Males dressed as men are presumably allowed in the other womenswear fitting room though, as I was told I would not be stopped from using the menswear one.

Maybe M&S is having a problem with shedloads of men ordering lingerie on line, trying it on for the thrill/selfie and sending it back? I can see that could become quite a hobby for those that way inclined. So perhaps by encouraging male customers to try on in store by using the fitting room where they 'feel comfortable', that could be seen as a way to alleviate the returns headache.

mummy

Every time I write cos it corrects it to cis 🙄

The reviews really dont need to he so detailed do they. It fits well, its good/poor quality. Delivery was quick/slow

We dont need to know about how much room there is at the front 🤮

So perhaps by encouraging male customers to try on in store by using the fitting room where they 'feel comfortable', that could be seen as a way to alleviate the returns headache

That's a good point, TimeLady. The cost of dealing with online returns must be significant.

Profits first, last and in-between, even though it means throwing girls and women under the bus.

I think M&S needs to update its Code of Ethics.

When you make returns for online orders does it allow you to state the reason for return? Cause if so that's where I would put "I would have just tried these on instore but unfortunately you don't seem to be able to offer me a single sex changing room in which to do so".

Or for knickers "Had to order online because it was the only way to be sure that the items hadn't been tried on and potentially masturbated into" with links to reviews from men.

This is interesting🤢

Do they take returns for lingerie? I thought they didn't.

Well, I guess that answers the question about why they've been leaving gussets unstitched.

Indeed prodigalkittens. I’m away to bleach my brain if anyone needs me...

I think I'm in for a very awkward conversation with my stepmother and my auntie when I try to explain why I don't think they should buy knickers that aren't multipack there any more unless they buy them online.

No mention of lingerie in the returns exclusion list

www.marksandspencer.com/c/help/returns-and-refunds/is-there-anything-that-cant-be-returned#cantreturn

although swimwear is there, funnily enough.

Sarah
Oh noooo. I am not even going to attempt to type that other c word anymore. Right now mine recognises cos.... on my iPad and dds. Yeh!!

Sexnotgender
Well that’s categorical proof then. They’ve been doing the open gusset thing for maybe 13/14 years to my knowledge. Ergo this changing room change has been part of a phased policy on male bodied people wearing women’s clothing.

Omg - is that really the reason the gusset's not sewn in? Designers are designing women's underwear with men in mind

Is there any reason a woman wouldn’t want the gusset sewn down?

Presumably if they sewed the gussets they could be accused of transphobia.

There is no reason for a woman to need an open gusset. It wouldn’t be practical to insert a sanitary towel, panty liner etc in there. You’d want that on top of the fabric.

Like with sport, and indeed changing rooms, there should be a seperate space.

Men have their underwear, women have their (with sewn gussets) and trans women have theirs (with unsewn gussets). But I suspect they don't want that. They want ours. The question is why.

So our underwear is adapted.

Omg - is that really the reason the gusset's not sewn in?

Profit margins, I think, pure and simple. It would be cheaper not to sew the gusset in plus it increases the potential customer base. Win/win.

I'm sure the designers and manufacturers are not unaware, however.

Gusset-gate.

My mind is blown.

I've had to go and check my pants drawer because of this and now I feel a bit sick. Are the gussets left open at the front for men to tuck their bits into? Is that what you're saying? Ewww

I guess it's one way one keeping things safely in place.

That's it. No unsewn gussets from me from now on. We've been lied to over that one. "Easier to sew, my ass"

Gussets on women's knickers are left open for men? Just how deep does this rabbit hole go?

What’s that noise you say? I think it’s the sound of hundreds of women riffling through their knickers drawers

My gussets are all sewn. Maybe the pants I buy aren’t sexy enough

I only found one pair of knickers in Asda yesterday with an unsewn gusset- so its not about price.

Thanks for updating, Kraken

I am completely bloody sick of retailers not thinking things through.

Marks Suspenders are going to have admit this is a problem - so they either tell women that tall men changing next to them will be able to see them with no effort at all (as you have said you have to make a conscious effort NOT to see in the next cubicle.

OR - they will have say no men over 5'9" can try on the knickers in the women's changing room.

OR they have to remodel their changing rooms.

OR they could just give women a private women only changing room, and introduce a gender neutral one as well. (Why don't they all do this??)

And they should bloody well admit that mixed changing areas cause problems for women regardless of the height of cubicles.

www.independent.co.uk/life-style/women/sexual-assault-unisex-changing-rooms-sunday-times-women-risk-a8519086.html

Increased risk of sexual assault/voyeurism is a valid concern.