Marks and Spencer have fallen, part III; we’re gonna need a bigger boat

[MrsSnippyPants]

Fresh thread in case part 2 fills up overnight.
I am yet to receive a reply to my third email, have been furiously tweeting, and as am now pursuing the options available to me as a shareholder.
Still crossing fingers for John Lewis!

Same. If JL pledge to keep a single sex space for women, then I will buy from them instead. My nearest JL is over two hours away, but I visit when in the city and buy online. So far I have spent far more money at Mark’s Suspenders, but I will shop at JL instead if they value my custom.

If this legal detail is pointed out to them, they might, just might start backing down.

I'm sure they don't really want a legal challenge do they?

You can't wriggle out of this one M&S.

WrathofSIxFootSlxElf

swhittled

Love it

Women all over Britain need to get behind this. If enough women stopped shopping there, even agreed to stop for one specific full week, they would lose millions.

Only thing I can find on the John Lewis site is this page about diversity and inclusion

We positively celebrate diversity & inclusion in the John Lewis Partnership. Truly embracing individuals contributions, regardless of their age, gender, ethnicity, disability, sexuality, social background, religion or belief. Having a diverse and inclusive business is vital for our future success and that’s why it is at the heart of our ultimate purpose; the happiness of all our Partners.

www.jlpjobs.com/about/diversityandinclusion/

Gender instead of sex again. Looks as though they've drunk the Koolaid too, I'm afraid

There's a GEN (Gender Equality Network) focuses on gender equality. It empowers Partners to overcome barriers and be more involved in Gender topics outside of their day job

and a Pride in the Partnership was the first network to develop in the Partnership and supports the LGBTQ+ community and their allies. They are focused on enriching the happiness of Partners through increased visibility and support. They regularly attend and celebrate Pride events across the UK

so I'll be amazed if that manager's suggestion of single-sex fitting rooms comes to anything, tbh

Happy to shop at John Lewis if what the Manager she spoke to said was true.

Is there a thread about where not to shop?

I mentioned this to my mum who didn’t like it but accused me of ramming it down her throat even when I said I didn’t want gifts from there. I cannot believe the rights of pervs trump women.

I can see "swhittle becoming a verb:

Swittle : verb

• 1) to sneak legislation in through the back door and show glee that "no one threw a fit in the press".

• 2) to amend company and and/or organisations' Equality Policy through the back door via stealth diversity training sessions.

Good work Numbers, that made me laugh!
If anyone wants to draw the omission of sex from the M&S equality policies to the attention of their legal department, Nick Folland appears from the corporate website to be their head of legal.
[email protected]

CriticalCondition

Email sent. Thanks

Do you think we could get someone at Mark's Suspenders to read this?

Just caught up on these threads.

Eww. Just eww.

I've always bought my undercrackers as supermarket multipacks thank fuck. But I'm seriously creeped out by these revelations.

M&S has a 20% off weekend this weekend. Hoping the story hits the Mail in time and upsets the loyalists. Normally I'd be buying a load of Xmas presents with the 20% off but not this time. I have just found a load of matching Frozen 2 items on Peacocks website at a fraction of the M&S price anyway

I’m over six feet tall which is unusual for a woman. When I go to changing rooms, I can almost always see straight over the top into the next cubicle. I can also look straight into the mirror in the next cubicle which shows me the entire reflection of the woman changing next to me. Because I don’t want to make people uncomfortable, I always have changed sitting down or in a crazy knees bent position.

It is not uncommon at all for a man to be over six feet tall. Does anyone really think that a man, trying on women’s underwear , is going to give a shit about the comfort of the woman in the next cubicle who he will be able to easily see? Even if he is not intentionally looking at her, if he’s over six foot like me he will see her and she will see him.

Bless you for being so considerate @TheKrakening3

I would rather see a woman’s head over the top of a changing room than being unable to see a bloke who also adopts a crouch bent knee thing for entirely different reasons...

And I’ll bet you don’t grunt

Krakening - yes, women over 6ft are rare. Men, not so much.

Thank you for your post - can you please write that to M&S. Certainly, the M&S cubicles I've been in may have lockable doors, but they are not overly high (or low). Evidence that men of around 6ft could easily see over them, and see a reflection of the woman next door in the mirror, should not be ignored by M&S.

I think a mobile phone could be easily held both under and over an M&S cubicle.

I don't recommend anyone do this - but if one were to look at pornhub, one would see a plethora of spy footage of women changing, taken by stealth in changing rooms. Some is doubtless faked, some is real. People actually do this and upload the video onto porn sites.

I doubt anyone's that interested in my 48 yr old, post-3-children body (although you never bloody know) - but my 11yr old, developing daughter? They definitely would be - now and in years to come.

M&S are being wilfully naive about this.

@TheKrakening3
Thank you for posting this information. I’m floored. It never even occurred to me that the cubicle heights were so low that men could just see over the top. That puts an even more sinister twist on things.

I’m not well enough to go and measure the changing room cubicle height in my local M&S. Is anyone willing to take a tape measure, record the height and write to M&S again? Lingerie changing room height also very useful.

My M&S has recently had a refit in the changing area so I’d like to know this myself. I’ll go and measure when I’m well enough btw although idk when that will be....

@theflushedzebra
Idk if it is wilfully naive tbh judging by the reviews. And also seeing as the Chairman, Archie Norman also sits on the board at Target in the US, my guess is there is no naivety about it. Did you read the hidden camera case in a Target changing room posted on a previous thread?

I’m the same age as you with an 11 yo. If my body were filmed I’d be less angry. When you’ve been through all the procedures I have, it dullens the embarrassment somewhat. My dd otoh. Or anyone else for that matter, I’d be apoplectic.

@Mummyoflittledragon

Yes this whole thing is outrageous. I have messaged M and S too, as the low walls of women’s changing rooms is just another reason why this is a bad idea. They are designed for the height of an average woman, not an average man.

This is a very comprehensive analysis of autogynephilia. It’s a long read and frightening but insightful. Depressing. medium.com/@sue.donym1984/the-elephant-in-the-room-dc822144a81b

@mummyoflittledragon Archie Norman is on the board of Target Australia not USA. But - he must be aware of what’s happening within the retail industry and the business risks presented by mixed sex changing rooms. It’s all sinister.

Sorry if it's already been posted by anyone else who got a reply via email enquiring but its safe to shop at Debenhams!! They've confirmed they're single sex and anyone who feels uncomfortable can request access to the disabled!

Quick response from M and S about the issue of men being able to easily see over the top of cubicles due to their greater height. Will see what further responses say.

If m&s can’t deal with inappropriate behaviour on their own website I have no confidence inappropriate behaviour will be dealt with in store changing rooms. I’ve seen countless reviews like the attached, am appalled. A couple of reviews read like the underwear didn’t fit so they’ve returned for another size. I imagine the returned goods have been sold to another customer....
I’ve joined the boycott.