Will this affect your vote?

[BovaryX]

Several people have posted interesting threads about the response of political parties to questions about how/if they will safeguard sex segregated spaces. Some of the responses to that question explicitly demonstrate where politicians are aligned when it comes to protecting recalcitrant women against a concerted attempt to force ‘gender neutrality’ on the public. Some of those responses have been quite eye opening. My question is this. How influential will this be on your vote?

If this is what Brexit voters have had to put up with for the last 3 years then I don't blame them in the slightest for doubling down.

@Floisme
Well said. The condescension and arrogance is quite breathtaking

im not 'shutting down the debate' - im disagreeing with you- im disappointed that you dont understand the difference.

im not hectoring or finger-wagging or lecturing - although i might be grinning - and i am a bit bewildered why you are saying this. this is a discussion thread-

in what way am i discussing wrong?

I'll protest how I fucking well want. I have MS, I'm not marching anytime soon. I've written to my MP.
It's my voting opportunity, I will use it how I fucking well please. Including spoiling my paper. It's my choice.

where on earth did i say women arent allowed to do anything?

can i see it pls.

Nonsense about how we shouldn't spoil our papers because it's a wasted vote and no one cares and we shouldn't complain

im not hectoring or finger-wagging or lecturing - although i might be grinning - and i am a bit bewildered why you are saying this.
Seriously? You're bewildered by the words 'finger wagging' and 'hectoring?' Maybe go back and read some of your contributions to this thread and others.
this is a discussion thread-
Yes it is and, if you are as passionate about this as you seem, and if you seriously want to gain some support then maybe consider the way you are coming across to people who have been considering and discussing this for years.

I have voted lib dem recently but I’m really stuck now

To be very fair (to me) its a tory safe seat...so it really doesnt matter who i vote for

But I discovered during the last election that the parties will take my vote and say that its all about brexit...so the lib dens are perfectly capable of saying that my vote is all about their policy on women’s rights

I might check what the Independent is standing for and Vote for them...they only get about 100 votes

Imagine if any other group were treated like this. Imagine if all political parties were saying we are going to make gay marriage illegal, we are going to re introduce section 28. All parties. Do you think there would be people on the internet saying dont spoil your ballot, just grit your teeth and vote. No they would be saying go for it show them you won't stand for it. Can you imagine anyone saying forget about gay rights what about Brexit.
Stop waving the Tories record at us, we know but what we also have realised is that those on the left treat women just as badly, same song different tune. Dont wave boris at me when there are prominent labour activists campaigning to get a black lesbian woman sacked for campaigning for gay rights. You are just blind to the danger, as I was for a long time.
It always comes down to consent, we are saying no and you think if you cajole and brow beat us we will say yes. We are still saying no.

imagine if any other group were treated like this...we are saying no and you think if you cajole and brow beat us we will say yes. We are still saying no
@birdsdestiny

It’s interesting, isn’t it? There have been many eloquent responses to my op and there have also been responses which are indicative of precisely the attitude you outline. It’s the take one for the team little woman chorus. Getting very old very fast

how do I know they would uphold our rights once elected?

The question to ask here is "Would you be prepared to vote against the whip on this issue if elected?"

You're unlikely to get a "yes" on this - mostly likely a lot of shuffling about and unwillingness to answer clearly.

well i resent being told im hectoring, finger-wagging, silencing, not-allowing women etc, when i just disagree that spoiling ballots is an effective protest measure. i dont think it is- and yeah its my right to say that.

theres four weeks to go- can we think ways we can shine a light on this and get candidates to see our view better? my lab candidate in a tory held marginal was fully twaw - i feel breaking her free from the cult would be the best way forward! how? i can approach her on fb...should i? could we have a set email that we could send- in their 1000s- to candidates outlaying our concerns.

petitions? a march on westminster? im openly gc on fb which has been really good at getting people talking. are there some things we could all put up at the same time? etc etc.

im thinking anything is better than spoiling ballots and letting them in again sorry

I’ve posted this elsewhere but with many speaking about spoiling their ballots I’ve decided to post it on all relevant threads.

I know some people would rather feast on the raw flesh of their first-born child than vote Conservative, but for those for whom sinking gender self-ID is a priority, please consider holding your nose and voting Conservative. The Conservatives are not enthusiastic about this policy, in fact I think many think it’s absurd, once its ramifications are pointed out. Teresa May thought it would be a good way to appeal to liberals, not realising that women would be majorly affected and unhappy about it.

I think they are starting to understand what the general public feel about self-ID and have put it on the back burner for now. I think this will be their policy going forwards, citing Brexit and other parliamentary business neglected while the focus has been on Brexit. This gives us more time to educate the general public and make politicians and policy-makers see what the public really thinks, giving them the confidence to privately or publicly oppose self-ID.

Obviously, some people have other priorities, and I’m not even sure what is best to do to deal with the Brexit situation, which is another major issue, but if self-ID is your number one issue I think the Conservatives deserve serious consideration.

Don't you think we've tried that @helmetbymidnight? There have been GC meetings at the houses of parliament - hundreds of MPs have been lobbied. There is a very tiny minority willing to speak out against the demolition of women's rights, many jingoistic and blinkered TWAW who almost certainly have a vested interest in staying that way, and then a silent majority who are afraid to speak on this issue at all as they know one side is unafraid to send abundant death and rape threats in a climate where the police have also been subject to stealth regulation capture. Spoiling ballots is about women expressing their utter frustration at being ignored, demonised and patronised - it's not a slick political campaign with fixed outcomes.

Of course it's your right to say it Helmet but if you seriously want posters to engage with you then maybe try reading the room? Because you know what, I for one am desperate to vote Labour. Desperate. I'm like a woman in a bad relationship who takes a drunken phone call as a sign that he still cares. But after Brighton, lectures and emotional blackmail (whether you resent it or not, this is how you are coming across) don't cut it any more. I need something new.

And I'm sorry but that something new has to come from the Labour Party not from GC women. After Brighton I need some kind of sign from them that they respect the views of women, even if they disagree. I think their reaction to the declaration of sex bases rights will tell me a lot.

reminds me of my many friends and family who voted brexit to send a message of protest to the ruling class. that worked out well.

In terms of what they sought to do it was in my view enormously successful. I write that as someone who voted Remain and was thoroughly depressed by the result.

It smacks of "even though they won they're too stupid to know they're wrong". I'm depressed to see this kind of thinking being transferred from the Brexit debate into the gender critical one.

lets do something though, this last month:

a friend was targeted in a email campaign recently - it was horrendous but v effective. is there an email we could make to click on to send to candidates?

i agree with the anger but not with the method...we need more in our arsenal(!?) but what- i dunno.

You're still not listening. I'll say it again: I need the Labour Party to do something that will show me they respect the views of women even if they disagree. As far as I'm concerned, the ball's in their court now.

It smacks of "even though they won they're too stupid to know they're wrong". I'm depressed to see this kind of thinking being transferred from the Brexit debate into the gender critical one.

The arrogance, sense of intellectual superiority and patronizing dismissal of legitimate grievances is eerily similar. I think telling women to ignore any frivolous concerns about our entire legal, social identity being dismantled because Brexit is quite outrageous. The people embracing this tactic just can’t seem to grasp why it infuriates and alienates potential voters.

It will affect my vote. I will be spoiling my ballot paper. My right wing Tory MP (Safe seat) is GC but I can't bring myself to vote Tory.

I had an email from WEP yesterday saying they've aligned themselves to the LibDems and won't stand against them in some seats because they've accepted some core policies. They're not standing in my seat so it doesn't specifically affect me, but for crying out loud WEP - the clue's in the fucking name! How can you align yourself with a party which doesn't even know what a woman is?

The WEP has been a huge disappointment.

To be very fair (to me) its a tory safe seat...so it really doesnt matter who i vote for
Mines a labour safe seat. Knowing that they will get in no matter what I do means I am quite safe to spoil my ballot. Its my reason for even making the effort to vote. Its a very long walk for me. All I need now us a sticker, or phrase that as many of us as is possible are going to write.

theres four weeks to go- can we think ways we can shine a light on this and get candidates to see our view better?

Well I've been trying to raise this issue for 2 years, I dont want to lose my job and I dont want beating up or my family doxxed. So given that straightjacket I am getting not far.
If you want to take one for the team, be a beacon etc. You crack on and let us know before the day of the election.

Imagine if any other group were treated like this. Imagine if all political parties were saying we are going to make gay marriage illegal, we are going to re introduce section 28. All parties. Do you think there would be people on the internet saying dont spoil your ballot, just grit your teeth and vote. No they would be saying go for it show them you won't stand for it. Can you imagine anyone saying forget about gay rights what about Brexit.

Exactly. There's a surprising amount of people tutting at and shaming women who have decided to spoil their ballot paper in protest. Why should we be expected to put up and shut up when our rights are being removed? No way.

I want to vote Labour, but this issue is stopping me. I’ve emailed my Labour parliamentary candidate today (I’m in a Tory seat) to ask if she’ll be signing this declaration (discussed on another thread in Feminism Chat):

www.ipetitions.com/petition/labour-womens-declaration

Why don't you all wait until each Party's manifestos come out, and then make up your minds? The 2017 Labour Party manifesto was appalling on women's /trans rights last time, and wanted full self-ID and reforming the Equality Act in favour of trans. The 2017 Tory manifesto said nothing re trans (they had to respond to the 2015 Women's & Equalities select committee recommendations, and unfortunately went with self-ID), but it was very strong on domestic violence and protecting children from online pornography. The Lib Dems are not only pro-trans and anti-women's rights, they are also in favour of decriminalising the men who rape women for money (prostitution) and were against stopping children from being able to look at misogynistic, violent pornography. I would never, ever, ever vote Lib Dem. I'm waiting to see what the manifestos say about women and safeguarding children.

I've never felt so disenchanted by an election. I can't vote Tory, or Lib Dems. For me it's between Labour and Greens, and they've both bought into the self id rubbish. (Plus we have a climate crisis going on, so why aren't Greens focusing on that?) I'll probably go Labour because I know that my MP doesn't believe in self id - even if he'll end up being whipped to vote for it - and because he's done other good stuff for women and gay people. But whenever I hear about anti-Semitism and sexual harassment going unpunished and Momentum and men becoming women's officers, I'll wish to hell I hadn't. Probably.