Will this affect your vote?

[BovaryX]

Several people have posted interesting threads about the response of political parties to questions about how/if they will safeguard sex segregated spaces. Some of the responses to that question explicitly demonstrate where politicians are aligned when it comes to protecting recalcitrant women against a concerted attempt to force ‘gender neutrality’ on the public. Some of those responses have been quite eye opening. My question is this. How influential will this be on your vote?

They don't have the time, nor is it in their remit, to read the philosophical ponderings of disgruntled / confused voters.

They might start to notice if hundreds of spoilt ballots with 'Woman = Adult Human Female' started to appear though.

Also, isn't the point of a spoilt ballot to communicate to all parties that they are not doing a good job and they need to listen to voters?

They might start to notice if hundreds of spoilt ballots with 'Woman = Adult Human Female' started to appear though

Nope- they are very unlikely to notice. They are there to identify which candidate got the vote.

Also, isn't the point of a spoilt ballot to communicate to all parties that they are not doing a good job and they need to listen to voters?

No, there really isn't any point other than to make the individual voter feel good. Do you seriously think the tiny number of deliberately spoiled papers communicates to parties they aren't doing their job properly?

Carol, does that mean you think we should all vote for parties who want to bring in self ID? I'm trying to understand why you are so against individuals wanting to spoil our ballot papers.

They don't have the time, nor is it in their remit, to read the philosophical ponderings of disgruntled / confused voters.

And yet, on another thread, more than one posters (counters and candidates alike) said they did read them.

poster

I've been debating this point. I have no idea who to vote for. Probably doesn't matter as I live in a very safe Tory seat.
Gender politics is a big issue for me, as an adult human female with 2 young child human females. All the main parties seem very fixated on TWAW and I just cant bring myself to vote for a party who want to allow penis into places my children may be in on their own in future.

A former Lib Dem voter and member here who won't be voting for them. I don't agree with their stance on Brexit anyway and the TWAW nonsense is another nail in the coffin. We've got a Lib Dem MP and at the last election the Tories were hot on their heels. Although our MP is good on local issues I just can't bring myself to vote for them.

I can't face voting for any of the other parties either so looks like I'll be spoiling my paper for the first time. DH is thinking of doing the same.

Right I've been reading about spoiled votes.
They are on the increase.
They are counted so almost 100k in 2015, which apparently is an enormous amount. I think we can do better.
It makes the news only when its newsworthy, so an area that had 13% spoiled ballots was newsworthy, my constitution with the usual amount, didnt.
If we stick to a phrase, a sticker, a set thing then I reckon we can make the news but anonymously.

All of the spoiled ballots are checked and counted. Its ridiculous to claim they don't count.

I will probably spoil my ballot this year as there is no on I can vote for in good conscience.

Just shown this thread to 5 GC aware friends at a post work drinks. All Labour women. We were discussing how sad we are that the WEP didn’t stand up for us, we have all already realised Labour don’t want us. A few were going to vote Lib Dem now totally changed their minds,3 are possibly not voting.
Who will this benefit ? Sadly it’s probably the Torys.

I am staring to think that I could switch from my tribe. At first I was thinking I’d hold my nose and vote labour again. But if say, my local labour candidate said they were GC, and said they would fully support biological women when I contacted them, how do I know they would uphold our rights once elected? I never would have said women’s shortlists would have men on them. Along with all the other- never going to happen scenarios that are happening now. If their party line differs from their personal views which will they stick with if they have to vote? That’s what’s now started to worry me. This is no minor issue. This election, if Labour got in, they could possibly wipe the floor with women’s rights. I don’t know if I can knowingly risk that. I’m seriously considering switching now.

They just don’t give a shit about us do they? This discussion will never be on the political agenda because women don’t count.
I’m 20 and this will be the first time I get to vote in a general election. I used to be so excited about getting to vote the Tory’s out optimistic child that I was . God knows who I’ll vote for now.
I’m pretty sure only the Communists are on our side with this one and they’re hardcore Brexiteers so I couldn’t even vote for them!

I've spoken to the lib dems membership team this afternoon. I described my views and asked if I can still be a member. They seemed very surprised and said of course I could. I explained the issues being raised here and how they are haemorrhaging votes from women. I have followed up formally with an email and they're taking it further.

As all the main parties seem terrible on this issue I would encourage as many people as possible (who feel able to) to lobby their usual parties, make our views known and demand protection of women's rights.

I don't accept that diagnosis @CarolCutrere or any other point you've attempted to make on this thread. You are obviously working very hard to make women here feel even more frustrated and disenfranchised than they already do. And why you're doing that is open to debate.

This election it’s the only thing I’ll be deciding my vote on. If I don’t, I’m unlikely to have a voice in the future on all the other issues that trouble me
This is my view on this, too

To be completely clear - this will decide my vote 100%. More than Brexit, the economy, possible wars, anything.
I'd vote far-left, far-right, any of the major parties, independent local candidates; whoever was willing to state that a woman is an adult human female would get my vote.
I know this is a minority view but it's how I feel.

CeridwenTheWitch
Carol, does that mean you think we should all vote for parties who want to bring in self ID? I'm trying to understand why you are so against individuals wanting to spoil our ballot papers

You can do what you want- just don't think your spoiled ballot paper is some great blow against the system or great protest.

WTCT
They don't have the time, nor is it in their remit, to read the philosophical ponderings of disgruntled / confused voters.

And yet, on another thread, more than one posters (counters and candidates alike) said they did read them

The tellers are there to determine which candidate got the voter's vote. They are not there to read the pontificating on spoilt ballots. Indeed a teller sitting obviously reading or paying close attention to a paper for longer than it takes to determine who the vote was cast for may well be asked by a supervisor or a candidate's election agent what they are doing.

All spoiled ballots are shown to the returning officers who will verify that they are indeed spoilt. The returning officers have no interest in what has been written either beyond verifying that it is impossible to allocate the paper to one candidate.

The candidates are entitled to see them to verify the tellers and the returning officers made the right call. The candidates might well read what has been written.

For spoiled ballot papers to have any effect you would require 1000s in every constituency, all saying the same thing. That isn't going to happen.

Ime tellers do stop and confer occasionally when there's a spoilt ballot. Takes a few seconds but how long does it take to read the words 'adult human female' anyway, Carol?!

I feel like every time there's an election, more and more women here come on to talk about ballot spoiling - it's definitely something that's gathering momentum. MN has 2 million users, mostly in the UK. There isn't some magic number of spoiled ballots that's going to magically reverse the war on women's rights and i think it's disingenuous to try and construe that as the aim here. What we are talking about is potentially hundreds of thousands of women sending a consistent message to the individuals involved in the electoral process. We can't determine the outcome beyond that. Women had to result to blowing up post boxes and smashing up shops in order to get the right to vote, but before that they spend decades writing polite letters to the men running the political system. This falls into the latter category rather than the first.

If my LibDem candidate wants to know why she/he didn't take the seat she can look at all the lost votes. Not the ones to the other parties, the spoiled ballot ones. Which she/he should have got. And " No Self- ID " will be why she/he didn't get mine because my ballot will say so. It may not matter a jot in the grand scheme of things but he/she will see it.

You can do what you want- just don't think your spoiled ballot paper is some great blow against the system or great protest.

it is staggering.

reminds me of my many friends and family who voted brexit to send a message of protest to the ruling class. that worked out well.

what we're really talking about here is giving bj and farage -with their hard brexit and screw the nhs/economy -five years of power.

there are ways to protest and there are times to protest - this isnt one (especially as we dont even know whats in the manifestos yet)

Yes it is staggering: the hectoring, the finger wagging, the grins to the imaginary audience.
It is also the height of stupidity to talk to people in such a patronising way.
If this is what Brexit voters have had to put up with for the last 3 years then I don't blame them in the slightest for doubling down.

Indeed a teller sitting obviously reading or paying close attention to a paper for longer than it takes to determine who the vote was cast for may well be asked by a supervisor or a candidate's election agent what they are doing.

Well, @CarolCutrere I’m comfortable that it won’t take more than a second or two to read ‘Women don’t have penises’

You think it’s a wasted vote fair enough. I know I won’t change your mind. But you won’t change mine either. The parties are a shower of shit and, although my spoilt ballot may not do much, it’ll be a cold day in hell before I vote for a party who refuses to let me define myself and my rights in life and in law.

@Helmetbymidnight - a message was sent to the sneering, ruling class though wasn’t it? You may not like or agree with the message, but there was a silent majority (who clearly felt they hadn’t been listened to or heard previously) who expressed themselves at the Brexit ballot box.

there are ways to protest and there are times to protest - this isnt one

@Helmetbymidnight
It really is curious how posters such as yourself think they can lecture people in general and women specifically about when they are or aren’t allowed to register their displeasure by spoiling their ballots. It’s also curious that you repeatedly try to divert the discussion from the specific question posed by me in my OP. It wasn’t about Brexit. It was about whether the TWAW policies endorsed explicitly by two main political parties would deter voters. I think this is a question worth debating. Judging by the numerous eloquent replies, so do many others. Some people seem absolutely determined to shut that debate down.

what message was sent? they thought they were screwing the tories and kicking the elites- there is now the most elite incompetent tory govt in place.

lets keep them there!