Do women have the right to say they feel uncomfortable over a name?

[SarahNade]

I hope this is as safe place to ask this. I am on a discussion on another thread, and it seems many think that a woman has no right to ask not to be addressed by a colloquial term, and if she does ask, she is the one being unreasonable for daring to stick her neck out, she is the one overreacting, for merely asking. Yet the male who went politely asked, gets offended that a woman dares utter her discomfort, and gets abusive with her. So why is it the woman who is 'overreacting' by merely asking not to be called something, but the man is not seen as overreacting by taking offence to her request and getting indignant?

Do women have the right to ask politely not be called something, without being told they are 'overreacting'? Or should women accept being called a term they don't like, shut up and put up with it in case she gets the male in trouble?

Driechdrizzle

"but don't come the women can do no wrong card"

You didn't say please. At least I said please

Your point being what? Women can be disparaging and patronising too- don't pretend they can't.

If you had read anything else I posted I said the poster was perfectly entitled to ask him to stop calling her love. I'd have done the same.

I have been called auntie in an Asian culture. As I know how it's used there, I felt very touched.

You really are scrabbling around to defend this sexist man aren't you? Why is that?

I'm not trying to defend him particularly. I'm just not quite so desperate to condemn someone either. Parts of the original op sowed seeds of doubt for me so I'm 50/50 as to who was in the wrong.

I find it odd that you are so certain that the op was polite and the driver was rude and sexist based only on the information we were given.

Hearhoovesthinkzebras, you are clearly projecting your and your neighbors classist behavior on to OP.

I came across this first in the 80's when I started work in a youth club in a predominately asian community and the teenagers refered to their elders as 'aunty' and 'uncle' It was strange to me at first but the more groups I worked with the more normal it became to me

Well I'm not from an Asian community and I would ask anyone, man or women, who called me "auntie" or "grandmother" to stop it. It might be acceptable in their culture but it isn't part of my culture and I would find it horribly over- familiar.

I suspect however they actually would be too polite in the first place and this is a false comparison.

Nothing at all Carol.

I can't be bothered dealing with MRA speak at this time on a Saturday night on FWR. Maybe I'll come back to it in the morning.

Wow Carol. That is so similar to what happened to me. I had to quickly find another job because my ex-boss made my workplace impossible for me. His agenda was literally to drive me out once I'd challenged him. All because I was a nineteen year old who didn't want to be called darling and asked not to be very very nicely. It's lucky you were able to cut off contact from him.

Some women use terms of endearment when addressing both men and women. It is a defensive strategy women have developed over the years.

Plenty of women can use terms such as love in a demeaning or patronising way, it isn't always as a term of endearment.

Plenty of men can use them in a kindly, avuncular way. It isn't always sexist or misogynistic.

Sorry, that post should have been addressed to Critical.

If the OP lives in those areas I'm pretty sure she'd know the convention as I did after living there for a very short time.

I asked what if she doesn't? The reply was "well then the man must be from those areas".

Anything goes in the defence of men...literally as demonstrated again and again by cases in the media and verdicts given.

Surely they can, but do they? Nope!

Because he got angry HH. Decent men don't get angry. Men who are being sexist to women get angry. He felt entitled to behave the way he did.

And he's in customer service calling one of his customers abusive. He's way out of line.

There's nothing in the OP's post that suggests she did anything wrong, not matter how much people take issue with a woman saying she was firm.

Plenty of women can use terms such as love in a demeaning or patronising way, it isn't always as a term of endearment.

Yes like the defenders of "love" using it patronisingly at me thinking it would bother me. More fool them 1.it doesn't and 2. for pointing out the irony and hypocrisy in their own use of the word.

CarolCutrere

Actually Carol the thread is not supposed to be about another thread (against guidelines). This thread's question was Do women have the right to say they feel uncomfortable over a name?... I didn't read the referenced thread nor do I care to.

My comment is relevant to the convo here and is not ridiculous. Glad for you that you have been blessed to avoid such things. Women in my area however encounter them often (my mom is oddly thrilled to be 'invisible age' - her words - as she fears men less now that they 'don't see her').

Feel free to pontificate and debate about delivery dude but he is technically insignificant to this thread.

Anything goes in the defence of men...literally as demonstrated again and again by cases in the media and verdicts given.

So true. I've got to say I've never seen AIBU as bad as that. The pile-on on the OP who made about three posts but the thread has run to six pages so far was quite something.

12th rule of misogyny: Women's ability to recognize male behavior patterns is misandry.

I asked what if she doesn't? The reply was "well then the man must be from those areas".

But it's virtually impossible to deduce what the intent was. Many people here don't address people formally, so women will be called love, men calked love by women and men called mate or fella by other men. The intent of a man calling a woman love and a man mate could be exactly the same ie an informal greeting.

It could also be sexist. But then a woman calling someone love might have a less than innocent motive behind it and might mean it in a patronising, insulting or demeaning way.

I don't think it's worse for a delivery driver to address a customer using it in a sexist way than a female customer using it as a put down towards a female shop assistant tbh. If it's wrong in one instance it's wrong in both.

I suspect that the woman who was there has a more accurate assessment of her experience than you do, HH.

Feel free to pontificate and debate about delivery dude but he is technically insignificant to this thread

I don't need your permission to post.

And he's in customer service calling one of his customers abusive. He's way out of line.

A customer who is abusive deserves to be called abusive, hence USDAWS campaign for zero tolerance towards shop workers. No one is out of line for refusing to tolerate abuse, regardless of what job they do.

Did we circle round to intent again?

It doesn't actually matter what the intent was.

The van driver might have called everyone love. He might have just called women love. He might have been trying to patronise OP in particular by calling her love. I have heard the word used in all of those ways (lived in Yorkshire for a long time!)

The important thing is that the OP told him she wasn't happy being called that and asked him to stop. Which is the point he should have stopped. Because anyone saying "the thing you're calling me is making me feel uncomfortable" deserves to be listened to and respected. Even if you privately can't see what the big deal is and think they're a self-absorbed plonker.

(CF "It's not Miss, it's Dr", "Actually I'd rather you called me by my given name rather than 'Mum'", "It's not Ms X, it's Mrs X", "Please use Mrs XYZ rather than my first name"... Not taking sides on any of these, btw, just that they are requests I've seen people make and the appropriate response, whether the request is reasonable or up itself, is to politely go along with it.)

Instead the van driver lost his temper and accused the OP of being aggressive. He should not have done that.

Could be worse, though. I have friends in the West Country, and having people call me "My Lover" still freaks me out every time I go down there.

@CranberriesChoccy a parent at work called me Sugar tits the other day. I thought I'd miss heard her! Never heard that one before!

Going back to the beginning..

Do women have the right to ask politely not be called something, without being told they are 'overreacting'?

In theory yes.

In practice it's this

Or should women accept being called a term they don't like, shut up and put up with it in case she gets the male in trouble? Complete with arguments,diagrams,name calling,personal attacks etc.

Did we circle round to intent again?

Of course we do because even the most formal of terms could be used in a patronising way, so it isn't the name that's used necessarily but the intent behind how it is used.

The op could have said don't call me love, it's Mrs Op and the driver might then have proceeded to use Mrs Op but in a sarcastic way. Would that be ok, as he was using the name asked and had stopped saying love but it wouldn't have been ok because the intent was to be sarcastic.

Then why can't I call you cunt? I'll use it in a friendly,endearing and nice way,I promise.