Do women have the right to say they feel uncomfortable over a name?

[SarahNade]

I hope this is as safe place to ask this. I am on a discussion on another thread, and it seems many think that a woman has no right to ask not to be addressed by a colloquial term, and if she does ask, she is the one being unreasonable for daring to stick her neck out, she is the one overreacting, for merely asking. Yet the male who went politely asked, gets offended that a woman dares utter her discomfort, and gets abusive with her. So why is it the woman who is 'overreacting' by merely asking not to be called something, but the man is not seen as overreacting by taking offence to her request and getting indignant?

Do women have the right to ask politely not be called something, without being told they are 'overreacting'? Or should women accept being called a term they don't like, shut up and put up with it in case she gets the male in trouble?

I had exactly this. I challenged a colleague on calling me 'hun'. I said I didn't like it and asked him to stop. I said I felt it was over familiar and I pointed out he didn't address his male colleagues this way. His reaction was anger.

The fury is quite incredible isn't it? I used to get reports from people about how my ex-boss had been ranting about me for hours at a time. It went on for weeks. They hate it that we see what they're up to and refuse to accept it.

Lucky for them there are a whole lot of placid - read "kind" - women who will happily take the BS and never complain. Those women will never know what is really going on of course because they won't scratch the surface and find out the real reaction: entitled rage.

Did your colleague stop calling you hun?

I have come across abusive customers, I certainly haven't confronted them about it. Why would I? Their behaviour is their business, not mine. We just all talk about them afterwards and judge them madly.

Where I work it isn't tolerated and security remove them. Sorry your employer doesn't value their staff.

Yes it's very important that men have a sexist, patronising, touchy feely term in their arsenal to remind women of our place - to be touched and felt by them.

But it isn't only men using the term love and it isn't always used in a patronising or touchy feely way is it? And we really have no way if knowing how this particular man used it. He used it with op, she told him firmly not to and he then accused her and her husband of being abusive. Who knows the intent behind any of it?

@WhiskeyLullaby how do you navigate your way through life being so obtuse and self righteous? Must be hard love

"And we really have no way if knowing how this particular man used it."

Yes we do. The OP told us he made her feel patronised and belittled. Do you not believe women when they say men have done something to them that hurt them?

The OP's intent was to stop the delivery driver calling her "love"

Please stop with the women do it too stuff. It's so out of place on FWR.

@overnightangel very easily, thank you for asking love.

I wonder if a woman in customer service who was calling her customer "love" would get angry and call them abusive if they asked her politely to stop.

My instinct is no she wouldn't.

Btw the personal attacks aren't kind or nice or pleasant...we can't have that can we?

Or does that apply just when we're talking about men?

These kindness rules are so bloody confusing.

Yes we do. The OP told us he made her feel patronised and belittled. Do you not believe women when they say men have done something to them that hurt them?

That is how the op felt. It doesn't mean that was the intent of the driver. Just as he said that the op was abusive but she claims that she wasn't.

Please stop with the women do it too stuff. It's so out of place on FWR.

Well women do use the term love. Are you saying that's ok then?

Imagine if everybody had to be kind in AIBU. It would have to shut.

I wonder if a woman in customer service who was calling her customer "love" would get angry and call them abusive if they asked her politely to stop.

All depends on how they asked her to stop. Some people's idea of polite is anything but.

Do you want to similarly attack other cultures where delivery men call women “auntie” or “grandmother” as a form of equal to equal address and endearment?

Where does this happen? And do they call men "uncle" or "grandfather"?

I'm struggling to see any situation where it is appropriate for a delivery man to use those terms for a customer. And why on earth should a delivery man be using a term of endearment anyway?

There is one person in the world to whom I am an aunt and none to whom I am a grandmother. I would absolutely ask anyone who called me "auntie" or "grandmother" to stop it.

When random dudes stop yelling at me "get on my dick", "I'll eat your pussy so hard you'll cry", "come to daddy", "wow", "yummy"...

and stop reacting with "fuck you stupid bitch/whore/cunt/slut" or "you are fucking ugly anyway" or "I'll fuck you up bitch"

when I ignore or nicely (to avoid conflict or out of fear) disregard or decline their advances

then maybe I'll somewhat loosen my steadfast grip on my boundaries but I'll never just 'be nice' to men that seek to objectify or infantilize me because I am a woman.

My internal 'nice girl' is dead. She survived a lot of shit by quieting her pain through niceties at her own expense.

I am kind... being kind is subjective. I am kind because I alert others to behavior that is hurtful to me and other women/girls. I am kind because the actually pleasant men that I tell to not degrade me take note and rarely refer to me with the same terms (bagger at grocery, clerk at corner store, etc). I am kind because girls in my vicinity will hear a strong woman assert her boundaries politely yet firmly in a calm and assertive fashion. I am kind to myself by not acting like something is ok that isn't or by acting meek as if submissive. I am no one's property, chattel, fuck bunny, or dessert and I am kind to assert as much.

I won't be told to be kind at my own expense as a tool to manipulate my perspective/subjectivity of kindness.

I already said it's fine because women who use love use it to both sexes. So it's not sexist. It's not sexist when men use love and duck to both sexes either like they do in parts of Derbyshire and South Yorkshire.

The OP wasn't abusive. She simply said asked him not to call her love. On the other hand he got angry and called her abusive (projection). She didn't even comment on his behaviour. She could have said he was a misogynistic tool, but she didn't.

It doesn't mean that was the intent of the driver.

Ohhh intent,wait i know that... isn't that the defence used by what's his face for kissing a stranger? She was fat so there was no sexual intent,he just wanted to cheer her up. He meant no harm.

And isn't that the defence of most cases of rough sex casualties (victims of rape and murder)? There was no intent to murder her,just a sex game gone wrong, they mean no harm.

Isn't that the defence of the whole laddish culture,harassing,assaulting,abusing, belittling, imposing their presence on women and girls? Oh but it's just a laugh,just banter. There was no intent , just a bit of fun really. They meant no harm.

Please stop with the women do it too stuff. It's so out of place on FWR

There was nothing wrong in the poster asking him to stop calling her love but don't come the women can do no wrong card. In the situation described I wouldn't be happy with either a woman or a man persistently calling me love.

All depends on how they asked her to stop. Some people's idea of polite is anything but.

We don't live in the same world, do we?

Women are socialised to be polite and nice and accomodating (be kind). It's men who are given license to vent their anger, particularly on women, just like Mr Delivery Man did.

But it isn't only men using the term love and it isn't always used in a patronising or touchy feely way is it?
Some women use terms of endearment when addressing both men and women. It is a defensive strategy women have developed over the years.

Men do not. They only use terms of endearment for friends and family or as a dominance display to women generally.

Just because you are used to it and consider it normal doesn't mean it doesn't still work as intended after all these years.

It's not sexist when men use love and duck to both sexes either like they do in parts of Derbyshire and South Yorkshire.

Great. Do you know where the op lives then? Presumably if in either of these areas it wasn't sexist.

Where does this happen? And do they call men "uncle" or "grandfather"?
I came across this first in the 80's when I started work in a youth club in a predominately asian community and the teenagers refered to their elders as 'aunty' and 'uncle' It was strange to me at first but the more groups I worked with the more normal it became to me.

Where does this happen?

In some Asian cultures I believe, I won't name any actual countries as I don't want to get it wrong.

And do they call men "uncle" or "grandfather"?

I'm quite sure that uncle is definitely used.

"but don't come the women can do no wrong card"

You didn't say please. At least I said please.

Intent is always revealed when the man is challenged. A man who intends no harm doesn't get angry or abusive if asked to stop what he's doing that is causing discomfort. On the other hand men who are exerting misogynistic power get furious when women call them out on it.

I'll always beieve a woman's misogyny detectors about a man. If she feels patronised and belittled by a man, that's because he's patronising and belittling her.

When random dudes stop yelling at me "get on my dick", "I'll eat your pussy so hard you'll cry", "come to daddy", "wow", "yummy"...

and stop reacting with "fuck you stupid bitch/whore/cunt/slut" or "you are fucking ugly anyway" or "I'll fuck you up bitch"

This comment is ridiculous in the context of this particular discussion. I've never experienced anything like that but it is not relevant to this discussion.

Context is everything and the context here it is this was not a cheerful "good morning love/ cheerio love" but the driver failing to deal with a valid customer complaint appropriately.

"Great. Do you know where the op lives then? Presumably if in either of these areas it wasn't sexist."

You really are scrabbling around to defend this sexist man aren't you? Why is that?

If the OP lives in those areas I'm pretty sure she'd know the convention as I did after living there for a very short time. It's common knowledge.

We don't live in the same world, do we?

Women are socialised to be polite and nice and accomodating (be kind).

Clearly we don't because where I live you very often see women being abusive and particularly towards those that they see as lower status than them so I don't see it as impossible that the op on that thread was rude to the driver.

Did your colleague stop calling you hun?
His angry reaction to my very measured and polite request was such an eye opener that as soon as I had the opportunity to reduce our contact to an absolute minimum I did. That was very soon afterwards so he didn't have the chance.
We had previously had a good working relationship and the nature of the work required empathy and self awareness which made it even more shocking to me. I even gave him a graceful 'get out' of it perhaps being a generational thing.
But no. Just anger. And complete refusal to even acknowledge my feelings, never mind accept he might be out of order.
It was the first time I realised I was seeing misogyny up close and in action and the scales fell from my eyes.