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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

Do women have the right to say they feel uncomfortable over a name?

553 replies

SarahNade · 09/11/2019 13:54

I hope this is as safe place to ask this. I am on a discussion on another thread, and it seems many think that a woman has no right to ask not to be addressed by a colloquial term, and if she does ask, she is the one being unreasonable for daring to stick her neck out, she is the one overreacting, for merely asking. Yet the male who went politely asked, gets offended that a woman dares utter her discomfort, and gets abusive with her. So why is it the woman who is 'overreacting' by merely asking not to be called something, but the man is not seen as overreacting by taking offence to her request and getting indignant?

Do women have the right to ask politely not be called something, without being told they are 'overreacting'? Or should women accept being called a term they don't like, shut up and put up with it in case she gets the male in trouble?

OP posts:
RuffleCrow · 09/11/2019 18:20

I think if anyone asked me not to call them something i'd probably just respect their wishes.

Like in The Good Place where Jason keeps calling Janet 'girl' and she keeps saying 'not a girl, but thank you'. And at one point that's how he figures out she's been replaced by 'Bad Janet' because Bad Janet doesn't object to being called 'girl'. Grin

formerbabe · 09/11/2019 18:20

Do you think it's sexist for a man to call a strange woman the overfamiliar "love", when he wouldn't do the same to a man?

I don't find it over familiar. My point was that women would say it to both sexes whereas men just say it to women. I see this more as a cultural norm rather than anything else. Like I said, intent is everything.

CarolCutrere · 09/11/2019 18:22

Does it offend you that in UK culture men only kiss women hello but women greet men and women by kissing?

That's a non- point as (a) it's done by people who already know each other and (b) my gay male friends do it to other men they know well.

Driechdrizzle · 09/11/2019 18:24

Yes sexism and misogyny are definitely cultural norms. You're right there.

The intent was clear when the man got offensive and claimed to have been abused by the OP on the other thread making a polite request to him. Men pulling this sort of crap to women get very angry when they're called out on it.

CalamityJune · 09/11/2019 18:26

I consider myself a faminisit, but it's things like this that give feminism a bad name. Personally I would find it achingly cringeworthy hearing someone object to being called "love" or similar in a customer service situation.

"Morning love, here's your shopping" is common parlance and a simple friendly pleasantry. He may have referred to the husband as "cock", or "mate" or whatever is common in that particular region. A female will generally use "love" for both sexes.

It is in no way disrespectful, and I do find the attitude quite snobby.

Driechdrizzle · 09/11/2019 18:34

Do the women defending this also like wolf-whistles and cat-calls in the street from strange men? It's all on a continuum.

CarolCutrere · 09/11/2019 18:35

"Morning love, here's your shopping" is common parlance and a simple friendly pleasantry

It is- because that is exactly what it is- a one off , pleasantry. The situation described wasn't that. It was a conversation about an incorrect order. Repeated use takes it well out of the pleasantry situation.

He may have referred to the husband as "cock", or "mate" or whatever is common in that particular region. A female will generally use "love" for both sexes

I'm sceptical about all the supposed cheery use of "cock" but as above it is not appropriate in a conversation.

Hearhoovesthinkzebras · 09/11/2019 18:43

The intent was clear when the man got offensive and claimed to have been abused by the OP on the other thread making a polite request to him.

How do you know it was a polite request? The op said she was firm and then her husband chimed in too - maybe they were actually abusive. You're assuming quite a lot by determining that it was "polite" when you actually don't know that to be true.

Hearhoovesthinkzebras · 09/11/2019 18:45

Next time we visit relatives in Leicester and are greeted as "me duck" by all and sundry I shall remember this thread.

CarolCutrere · 09/11/2019 18:49

Next time we visit relatives in Leicester and are greeted as "me duck" by all and sundry I shall remember this thread

Another non-point. Can't you see the difference between your family and people you know calling you duck and a complete stranger?

WhiskeyLullaby · 09/11/2019 18:56

Isn't it funny how a woman being "firm" is instantly suspected of being abusive?

BertrandRussell · 09/11/2019 18:58

I really don’t think men need the stalwart defence so many women provide them.

goodwinter · 09/11/2019 18:59

Isn't it funny how a woman being "firm" is instantly suspected of being abusive?

Well, I imagine that's because the delivery driver said she was being abusive. We can't know either way, because none of us were there, but I'd find it difficult to believe that someone working in a customer-facing role would make a baseless accusation like that - and frankly the OP didn't seem to have a great attitude (although I do agree that if someone asks you to stop calling them a particular term, the polite thing is to go along with their request).

WotchaTalkinBoutWillis · 09/11/2019 19:00

Another non-point. Can't you see the difference between your family and people you know calling you duck and a complete stranger?

That's just it though - in some places it's totally normal to call complete strangers duck!

formerbabe · 09/11/2019 19:02

Another non-point. Can't you see the difference between your family and people you know calling you duck and a complete stranger?

So, is it over familiarity that is the issue rather than sexism?

JacquesHammer · 09/11/2019 19:05

but I'd find it difficult to believe that someone working in a customer-facing role would make a baseless accusation like that

Do you? I find it very easy to believe a man would react with defensiveness when faced with a perfectly reasonable request from a woman!

saraclara · 09/11/2019 19:14

Little harmless pleasantries make the world go round in my opinion.
It is a different story if it is said in a way that is used to sneer or put you down.

Yep.

If I was going to be regularly in the presence of someone who called me a pet name I didn't like, I might say something gently. But a delivery man who I'm not likely to ever see again? Why cause awkwardness for so little benefit?

BertrandRussell · 09/11/2019 19:15

Yes- little harmless everyday sexism makes the world go round......

WhiskeyLullaby · 09/11/2019 19:15

@saraclara why gently? Why not just say it?

Andypandy81 · 09/11/2019 19:16

Personally I probably wouldn’t be bothered by it but if upset someone then you should respect that .

WhiskeyLullaby · 09/11/2019 19:18

I take firmly to mean anything that's now "oh please kind sir,could you please possibly think you might be able to not call me love, if that's not too much bother? Sorry .Thank you muchly" simpering bullshit that seems to be expected of women when they show their displeasure,gently of course and not being unpleasant.

goodwinter · 09/11/2019 19:19

Do you? I find it very easy to believe a man would react with defensiveness when faced with a perfectly reasonable request from a woman!

@JacquesHammer Honestly, yes. I get what you mean and I don't disagree in theory, but employment like that is precarious (especially if the customer decides to make a retaliatory complaint) so it just wouldn't be worth it to make an issue if it really was a "polite request" from the OP.

Obviously, I could be wrong. There are plenty of sexist men everywhere, I don't dispute that. But he was at work. I've seen how shitty customers can be, so I'd believe that more readily than I'd believe it went straight from "can you please not call me love?" to "you're being abusive!"

Driechdrizzle · 09/11/2019 19:21

"How do you know it was a polite request?"

She said please. Here you go:

He kept calling me “love” throughout the conversation. When I said “please don’t call me love” he accused me of abusing him on the doorstep. I spoke firmly but was in no way confrontational or aggressive, didn’t shout, swear et cetera. Notably he didn’t call either my daughter or husband anything, but did refer to me consistently as love. I felt seriously patronised and belittled.

You're assuming quite a lot by determining that it was "polite" when you actually don't know that to be true.

Well her post could be a tissue of lies, but I doubt it. Why do you doubt her?

I tell you what I'm not determining, I'm not determining that the man was being polite by calling a woman he didn't know "love" when she didn't like it and said so. Do you think he was being reasonable?

donquixotedelamancha · 09/11/2019 19:42

Well her post could be a tissue of lies, but I doubt it. Why do you doubt her?

I think most people didn't believe her:

  • Her reaction to a substitution seemed rude.
  • Correcting a driver trying to help her seemed confrontational.
  • The bit about his reply saying he wouldn't be abused seemed a complete non-sequitur.
  • Saying she was firm but didn't shout or swear seems like code for rudeness.
  • There was a change to the story when she was disagreed with.

Certainly it could easily be casual sexism from the driver but I don't think people suspecting snobbery from the OP are being unreasonable.

Creepster · 09/11/2019 19:48

2nd rule of misogyny: Women saying no to men is a hate crime.