Do women have the right to say they feel uncomfortable over a name?

[SarahNade]

I hope this is as safe place to ask this. I am on a discussion on another thread, and it seems many think that a woman has no right to ask not to be addressed by a colloquial term, and if she does ask, she is the one being unreasonable for daring to stick her neck out, she is the one overreacting, for merely asking. Yet the male who went politely asked, gets offended that a woman dares utter her discomfort, and gets abusive with her. So why is it the woman who is 'overreacting' by merely asking not to be called something, but the man is not seen as overreacting by taking offence to her request and getting indignant?

Do women have the right to ask politely not be called something, without being told they are 'overreacting'? Or should women accept being called a term they don't like, shut up and put up with it in case she gets the male in trouble?

@CarolCutrere It is a Glasgow and surroundings thing - you won't here "hen" much elsewhere in Scotland.

Found the thread. In the situation the OP described I wouldn't have liked it either. Using it once in a cheery "bye love" sort of way Ok- using it repeatedly in the situation where there was a mistake being queried- not OK.

@PlanDeRaccordement so can I call you cunt from now on?

I do not like it when men use terms of endearment instead of my name over and over again in a business transaction.
It is a male dominance display, sharply underlined by men taking offense when asked not to do it.

@BertrandRussell
Only if the person using those terms would use them equally to men and to women.

Yes, although some terms are not gender neutral and some allowance must be made for equivalent but gendered terms so that people are not misgendered. For example “madam” is equivalent to “sir” or “zir” and you use one or the other dependent on their gender.

@WhiskeyLullaby
No you may not, because the law says calling a woman a cunt is sexist, derogatory and abusive and if done in the workplace is gross misconduct that justifies disciplinary action.
My comfort or discomfort is immaterial.

@DoneToDeathNow
Oh and I find it laughable how vague you have been in your OP.

Same, I'm presuming this is the delivery driver called me love and I'm offended thread, seeing as I recognise OP's name from there?
As was rightly pointed out, it's nothing to do with sexist, certain parts of the country use love /luv towards others, even men to other men - totally normal word to use!

But there are a lot of women in here, that will insist it's used affectionately,it's a term of endearment,it's regional, they don't mind being called it and they call a lot of people that. You'll find even stronger opinions of the word being reclaimed and the casual use reduces it's mysoginistic and sexist connotations.

Where i live ive heard a few men call each other love not sure how common it is.

I have the image of bertrand going around yorkshire dressed as sherlock holmes asking everyone if they know of any male "loves" and jotting it down in a notebook. 😂😂

And there is no law that covers the word cunt in particular or it's connotations. There are laws about swearing in general ,and even those are vague and only applicable if it's seen to cause harassment,alarm or distress.
So I can call you that if choose to do so, and if you and others protests to that it will only be based on how you feel about it and because you're uncomfortable with it.

My intent definitely wouldn't be to cause alarm,distress or harassment.Everyone calls each other that where I'm from.

@WhiskeyLullaby
You are sure you can call a female coworker “cunt” and face no disciplinary action? Just try it on Monday. Say it nice and loud. Maybe do a wolf whistle to get everyone’s attention first.
Id bet a hundred euros you’d be suspended.

But cunt is a term of affection in Glasgow. I heard it on Mumsnet- it must be true!

@ PlanDeRaccordement - I’m sorry,I don’t understand your 17.30 post. What has sir and zir for tomorrow do with love and m’dear?

Of course that poster wasn’t unreasonable to ask not to be addressed we love.

Sincerely

A poster from Yorkshire who has never lived anywhere else and had yet to hear a man call another man “love”

In the US calling people 'cock' and 'cunt" are terms of insult and calling unknown people 'love' (unless you have a UK dialect and accent) would be off-putting and likely confusing for the recipient.

One of my best friends calls me love and boo while the other calls me schmoopy and babe. My mom calls me boo boo kitty (Laverne & Shirley) as well as many other names. My DH calls me baby and honey. Those are terms of endearment because of who says them but when someone in the wild calls me those things I am taken aback.

The 'terms of endearment' here are often sexiest in root even if not meant to be (or understood as) sexist in colloquial application. Is it the same in the UK? I would expect it is (happy to be corrected).

US 'terms of endearment' often fall into sexed categories.

For example, many terms are used to refer to children of either sex as well as women such as: baby, cutie, treat, peach, etc. I take pause at my irritation depending on the individual calling me the term. In the wild these terms are infantilizing for women but on the occasion they are used for adult men it is only by women or gay men... hetero men do not call each other such terms.

Respect for their fellow men that's why - hetero men signal respect to other men in casual discourse that they rarely afford women. Men call my DH chief, bro, brother, boss, dude, sir, mister, etc. Men call me baby, honey, sugar, peach, cutie, sexy, sweetie, etc.

Thus, when a man uses these terms exclusively reserved for children and women (by men) they are signaling dominance whether intentional or not.

I don't want nor accept being called 'Mrs. Stop' or infantilizing terms of endearment by those unknown to me; however, I tend to pick my battles based on their hierarchy of importance to me. Thus, in passing (unless said in a condescending tone) I tend to ignore it rather than create conflict with a stranger that in most cases is attempting familiarity or kindness (not an excuse for term use but a pragmatic understanding of our language variations - we live in the south so many of these terms are commonly used by people).

"Thanks sweetie/honey" to female service workers as an intensified gratitude is actually really fucking weird when you consider the same feeling/gratitude many will say "thanks man/sir" to a male service worker. She is sweet, delicious and sticky for providing good service... he is an adult male and respectable/honorable for providing good service.

PlanDeRaccordment said......
" To be offended is to be classist and assert you are not equals but above the sayer."

Nail on head.👍

Context is everything. Was the op in the other thread already heading to the abusive side of reasonable as her order was wrong? After all, that wasn't the drivers fault. She told him that she needed something to roast for Sunday's dinner - again not the drivers fault. She admitted to being "firm" with him by this point, and then got upset over his use of "love" was she only offended because she was already angry? Was he right to point out she was being abusive to him? And was the husband right to then wade into the argument?

Just because she is a customer, doesn't mean she wasn't being rude or abusive. Ask anyone who works in customer services.

No one can know who was right or wrong in this particular situation as we weren't there.

As an aside, for me being called love/pet/hen etc just isn't worth getting worked up over, especially when the likelihood is you won't see that person again.

Women often call both women and men 'love'

Men only call women 'love'

However, this doesn't bother me, it's like cheek kissing. Two couples go out, the women kiss the men and women hello. The men just kiss the women. The men shake hands.

Intent is everything

A man calling a woman love, when he wouldn't do the same to another man is sexist and asserts he is not equal to but above the woman he is calling love.

Context is all, and this is a TAAT.

The doesn't bother me crowd probably weren't bothered when they didn't have the vote, or a bank account that wasn't approved by their husband.

Things change luckily.

@Driechdrizzle
So what about cheek kissing as a greeting? Does it offend you that in UK culture men only kiss women hello but women greet men and women by kissing?

PlanDeRaccordment said......
" To be offended is to be classist and assert you are not equals but above the sayer."

Nail on head

I am unquestionably socioeconomic group AB and according to a BBC class survey "elite". It would not occur to me to use a term of endearment to a delivery man but if I did and he didn't like it he is entitled to ask me to stop it. It has nothing to do with asserting class.

The same applies to 'hun'. I challenged that one in a bookstore cafe in Harrogate, and told the young woman how offensive it was. Whilst she had no comprehension of the point I was trying to make, an older lady sitting at a table nearby nodded enthusiastically and gave me an approving look, so I think I'm on the right track!

On the right track for what, exactly? Putting a young cafe worker in her place?

Whataboutery isn't an argument formerbabe.

People who kiss one another generally know each other. Nothing to do with this situation when the man was using an inappropriate term to a woman he didn't know and was there to provide a service for.

Do you think it's sexist for a man to call a strange woman the overfamiliar "love", when he wouldn't do the same to a man?