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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Do women have the right to say they feel uncomfortable over a name?

553 replies

SarahNade · 09/11/2019 13:54

I hope this is as safe place to ask this. I am on a discussion on another thread, and it seems many think that a woman has no right to ask not to be addressed by a colloquial term, and if she does ask, she is the one being unreasonable for daring to stick her neck out, she is the one overreacting, for merely asking. Yet the male who went politely asked, gets offended that a woman dares utter her discomfort, and gets abusive with her. So why is it the woman who is 'overreacting' by merely asking not to be called something, but the man is not seen as overreacting by taking offence to her request and getting indignant?

Do women have the right to ask politely not be called something, without being told they are 'overreacting'? Or should women accept being called a term they don't like, shut up and put up with it in case she gets the male in trouble?

OP posts:
Driechdrizzle · 09/11/2019 23:42

It's aggressive because he responded to a simple, polite and reasonable request with an accusation of abuse.

So anyone saying that a behaviour is abusive is automatically being aggressive are they?

Your logic sucks. Think about it again.

For all you know the delivery driver weighed 7 stone and was being faced by op and her husband, both built like brick shit houses and their dogs Lucifer and Satan, and called them abusive as he ran back to his van crying.

Scrabbling around again. Give it up.

But no. He was a man and so therefore anything that left his mouth was by default both sexist and aggressive.

A man who calls a woman love when he doesn't do the same to men is sexist. A man who calls a woman who asks him not do this to her, abusive, is aggressive and misogynistic. Owning a pair of magic testicles isn't enough, particular types of behaviour are required.

I think you've just revealed a little more of yourself and your motivations than you probably wanted to BTW.

Hearhoovesthinkzebras · 09/11/2019 23:46

I think you've just revealed a little more of yourself and your motivations than you probably wanted to BTW.

Oh do enlighten me.

It's aggressive because he responded to a simple, polite and reasonable request with an accusation of abuse.

Again, how do you know that it was a simple, polite and reasonable request? You have no idea of the context, nor the tone nor the words used so how can you make such a judgement?

Plus getting her husband to join in too I dare say that a lone worker might very well feel vulnerable if the situation was becoming heated.

Driechdrizzle · 09/11/2019 23:48

The OP made three posts as far as I can see, one of them was this:

The point is he carried on after I asked him to stop. Good manners?

He did carry on after he'd been asked not to. Was that nice or kind?

Driechdrizzle · 09/11/2019 23:49

She said the words she used. That's how I know it was a polite and reasonable request.

Do you think it's impolite and unreasonable to ask men who are calling you "love" not to do it? I don't.

Hearhoovesthinkzebras · 09/11/2019 23:58

She also said that she said it firmly and was insisting that she "needed something to roast on Sunday" - why was that the delivery driver's problem to solve? So I think there was more to it entirely than her simply saying "please don't call me love".

3 sides to every story and all that.

Hearhoovesthinkzebras · 10/11/2019 00:02

She said the words she used. That's how I know it was a polite and reasonable request.

And you know how she said those words too do you eg tone and volume? Because shouting at someone for example could lead them to accuse you of being abusive.

WotchaTalkinBoutWillis · 10/11/2019 00:03

Again, how do you know that it was a simple, polite and reasonable request? You have no idea of the context, nor the tone nor the words used so how can you make such a judgement?
Exactly, none of us were there so how would we even know?

Plus getting her husband to join in too I dare say that a lone worker might very well feel vulnerable if the situation was becoming heated
That's what I thought too - why did her husband have to wade in too?
I read the other thread, it was the OP and DH that were coming across as unreasonable, not the other way around.

WotchaTalkinBoutWillis · 10/11/2019 00:05

She said the words she used. That's how I know it was a polite and reasonable request.

You cannot possibly know what is a polite and reasonable request just by words on a screen alone.
Actually being there and seeing the deliverance, body language, tone etc would make a world of difference to knowing if something was polite and reasonable.
It could have been shouted for all we know.

Driechdrizzle · 10/11/2019 00:07

Oh my god, a woman said something firmly. No wonder you think she was abusive.

"was insisting that she "needed something to roast on Sunday""

"Insisting" to a food delivery driver that she needed food. Appalling!

why was that the delivery driver's problem to solve?

Because he'd decided that the duck must belong to another customer, therefore she'd be left with nothing. And he's the food delivery driver working for Asda. He's their representative.

Driechdrizzle · 10/11/2019 00:09

Hey, DON"T FUCKING CALL ME LOVE AGAIN, would still be reasonable. Men need to stand down. But that's not what happened is it, despite your fevered imaginings.

WotchaTalkinBoutWillis · 10/11/2019 00:15

But that's not what happened is it, despite your fevered imaginings

Grin fevered imaginings Grin
Isn't that what we're all doing on this thread? NONE OF US WERE THERE, so you don't know either and are feverishly imagining too.
The only way you would know and not be "feverishly imagining" is if you were the "don't call me love" woman, the delivery driver or the DH lol

Driechdrizzle · 10/11/2019 00:18

One of us was there. The OP on the other thread. She can tell us what happened and she did.

Or does she not count as "us"?

Hearhoovesthinkzebras · 10/11/2019 00:21

Insisting" to a food delivery driver that she needed food. Appalling!

He's the delivery driver. His job is to simply deliver what he's been given, not to sort out the substitutions. If it wasn't suitable she just hands it back to the driver. It isn't his job to find her something for Sunday lunch so she was complaining to the wrong person. He's on the clock.

Hey, DON"T FUCKING CALL ME LOVE AGAIN, would still be reasonable.

Erm, no it isn't. Speak to me like that in work and you will be removed by security for being abusive.

Hearhoovesthinkzebras · 10/11/2019 00:24

The OP on the other thread. She can tell us what happened and she did.

Given her hyperbole expressed in the thread title am I unreasonable for never shopping at ASDA again because they're sexist or similar then I do doubt her ability to recount the tale honestly. Even if the driver had been sexist he is one man, not an entire company so no, I don't trust her judgement just based on her thread title alone.

Driechdrizzle · 10/11/2019 00:25

Oh, are you a man who calls women "love"? I was under the impression you were female. I'd never speak to a woman like that - sexist men on the other hand, fair game.

WotchaTalkinBoutWillis · 10/11/2019 00:25

One of us was there. The OP on the other thread
Erm..... yes, I said that. The only way you would know and not be "feverishly imagining" is if you were the "don't call me love" woman

She can tell us what happened and she did
Yes, she did - she said she was complaining about her substitution, what is she going to roast now, he used the word love and she said don't call me love and the DH felt fit to wade in too....
My point was we weren't there, how do we know if it was coming over aggressive or not?
It could quite well have been, or might not have been.
All this it can't possibly have been aggressive because it was a woman to a man and they need to stand down is a load of bollocks.
Of course women can be aggressive too.
But we don't know if she is or not ffs lol

Driechdrizzle · 10/11/2019 00:27

I had bad service at John Lewis the other day and I'm certainly never using that particular department again, and I complained. If a representative of a company makes you feel bad enough it can colour your whole view of the organisation They obviously employed this sexist man and didn't train him properly (don't call women love however much you enjoy it) so it's fair to hold them accountable.

WotchaTalkinBoutWillis · 10/11/2019 00:29

Erm, no it isn't. Speak to me like that in work and you will be removed by security for being abusive

Exactly, I mean WTF of course it is!

Driechdrizzle · 10/11/2019 00:29

My point was we weren't there, how do we know if it was coming over aggressive or not?

Because she says she wasn't confrontational. I believe her.

ffs lol

????

Driechdrizzle · 10/11/2019 00:32

It's not abusive to call men on their sexist misogynistic shit. It's not abusive for women to get angry about it even though we don't. The fact you think it is speaks volumes.

This woman was very polite as I was very polite when I asked my boss not to call me darling. I still had to leave my job because of it. She got called abusive. Men like this retaliate aggressively when they are challenged. All you're worried about though is if a woman stepped out of her allotted role being submissive to a man.

WotchaTalkinBoutWillis · 10/11/2019 00:37

It's not abusive to call men on their sexist misogynistic shit

Calling someone love round these parts is completely normal, and nothing to do with being sexist.
Men and women say it to each other, and even men to men.
It's totally normal in some parts of the country.
For all we know it could be the same for the delivery driver and he was from somewhere it is normal vocab too....

Driechdrizzle · 10/11/2019 00:44

"even men to men"

We've been through all that already. Quite a few times.

However in the majority of the country it is not the norm for men to call each other love. Some men around the country do like to call women they don't know love though for touchy feely reasons apparently.

What is the nicey nicey be kind way to ask them not to if "Please don't call me love" is verboten? How do we stop them addressing us like this? I said "Please don't call me darling", and "I just don't like it" and I was still hounded out of my job. How could I have been more nice so the poor man didn't feel so upset that he had to get me out of his workplace? I don't like darling or love from men I don't know, I find it disrespectful. How can I stop them calling me this?

Hearhoovesthinkzebras · 10/11/2019 00:56

They obviously employed this sexist man and didn't train him properly (don't call women love however much you enjoy it) so it's fair to hold them accountable.

What did he do that was sexist? He called her love, which may or may not have been sexist. Loads of people say love here - men and women. Are the women being sexist then when they say it? If it's women customers calling retail assistants "love" are they being offensive? Sony using the term "love" isn't being sexist so how can an entire organisation be sexist because one employee uses a term which may be sexist depending on how it's used?

It's not abusive for women to get angry about it even though we don'

Well, it would depend on how that anger manifests itself wouldn't it? You would be fine to contain about it, you wouldn't be fine to yell and scream in the employee's face or to clump him one.

Again, nigh on impossible to tell the nuances of this saga really. Was he being sexist or friendly? Was the op requesting politely or being angry and abusive? Who knows.

Hearhoovesthinkzebras · 10/11/2019 00:59

I don't like darling or love from men I don't know, I find it disrespectful. How can I stop them calling me this?

I don't like it from anyone that I don't know. I don't like me duck, or pet either. What do I do about it? Nothing, because it isn't worth doing anything about it. In short, it will cause more trouble than it's worth.

Driechdrizzle · 10/11/2019 01:13

My question wasn’t what you should do about it, or what you like or dislike. My question was what I should do about it given I don’t like it and want it to stop but still want to be nice and kind. The injunction is to be kind, so how can I be kind and nice whilst asking men I don’t know not to call me love or darling? There must be a way.