It’s official; Marks and Spencer have fallen, the sequel.......

[MrsSnippyPants]

First thread getting full and and I continue to be interested in responses received to people’s emails and store visits.

Guess which legally protected characteristic is NOT included? hmm ‘Gender’ seems to have been put in there instead.

FFS

Guess which legally protected characteristic is NOT included? ‘Gender’ seems to have been put in there instead.

Well spotted. It's very clear M&S policy makers need a lesson in biology and the Equality Act.

Poor Lauren needs a bottle of gin.

I've just looked up Archie Norman on M and S website and found:

His current external roles include: Adviser to the Board of Wesfarmers Limited, Director of Target Pty Limited, Deputy Chairman of Coles Limited.

Yep the chairman is on the board of Target

corporate.marksandspencer.com/aboutus/our-leadership-team/archie-norman

I can’t read the entire article. But can get enough just from the headline and photos.

Ffs this highlights once again the disordered thinking that men Can decide policies affecting women. They don’t have the ability, especially if they’re predatory (bonus for them, I'm sure).

Even my dh, who is a normal, respectful man cannot and does not get what it’s like to be a woman. I have explained what it is like for us. There a have been some pretty big light bulb moments and better understanding of why certain boundaries are in place.

Sashh
Good bit of investigative work. This starts to make sense.

ChattyLion
I forgot to say. Thanks for posting that.

How the fuck do these companies get away with ignoring certain protected characteristics?

Who do we need to complain to??!!

Wow, sashh - why the hell would he be involved in introducing such an unpopular policy in the UK then, after all the problems with perverts in Target stores? I am highly suspicious of the motives here.

Sending back a huge M&S online order today, with the reason why written on the returns form

afa.net/who-we-are/press-releases/2018/target-fitting-rooms-are-not-just-for-changing-clothes-anymore-beware-of-men-with-cameras/

womanmeanssomething.com/1034-2/

*@Mummyoflittledragon you can email this address:

[email protected]

Littlecabbage
Thanks I’ve done that Friday / over the weekend. I meant who other than m&s can we complain to about them ignoring the protected characteristic of sex? Should be illegal.

Chatty and Sashh
Thanks for those two gems of information.

What a fantastic development you lot have made by posting on the two M&S threads.

Here we have the connection with Target and it all starts to make sense.

Changing the word sex for gender in a policy and hope no one notices.

It seems such a small thing and the men making the decision don't think and don't care.

If there are women making these decisions then they are not paying attention to what is happening.

What contempt they must have for their female customers.

Thank you for that info @sashh, that's going in the email & on the info leaflet.

They obviously don’t want to upset the poor other men folk. I think given the amount of male policy holders it hasn’t been thought through at all. They’ve just thought let’s show how woke and inclusive we are without really thinking about the wider impact which it seems these people need training on. Actually training not bloody stonewall training.

One of my DC’s goes to high school next year and when we went for the tour we saw a table for LGBQT. I only glanced at it as it was in a busy part of the hall but I did see a stonewall poster so I’ll be investigating their loo situation and their personal education lessons as I’m not having stonewall crap anywhere near either of my kids especially as one has autism, normally wears boys clothes and is hugely sensitive and I do not want it rammed down her throat that she could be transgender.

National institute of economic and social research NIESR.
This is a London based think tank that carries out research of relevance to businesses and policy makers.
Our friend AN is on the board of NIESR.

It is interesting how it fits together.

Here is a link to one of the articles on the NIESR website.

www.niesr.ac.uk/blog/promoting-transgender-equality-social-workers-are-challenge-can%E2%80%99t-do-it-alone

So the changing room policy at Target resulted directly in assault and harassment of women. board members ignore it. Board member then introduce same policy into their own company in the name of customer comfort.

That is not an oversight, being unaware of consequences or lack of understanding. That looks an awful lot like endangerment of the public and negligence.

Has target changed ?

The reference to AN being on the board of NIESR was from his Wikipedia page.
I need to check this.

It’s very revealing to me how I now experience reading a report like the one linked above by NIESR.

I now question every use of the word phobia and discrimination in relation to gender identity and gender politics and wonder what the statistics and conclusions are based on. I think we need to see meaningful criteria in reports like this, that demonstrates facts and not hyperbole. Also first defining the characteristics of the group would be a good start.

Otherwise I’m remaining sceptical about the resulting conclusions regarding being ‘most vulnerable group’. Sorry slightly off topic.

Taking out a protected Characteristic (biological sex) from a corporate Ethics Code when it’s still legally in force suggests a level of deliberateness. Does it suggest they might have been lobbied, ‘trained’ or been given ‘legal advice’ that they should do this?
Advice that may have been adopted, like so many others have done, purely on trust - not adopted on basis of legal fact. Which could mean corporate risk-taking in the extreme. It’s really important that companies understand that ‘getting ahead of the law’ can mean ‘not working within the law’.
Also morally, It’s not open to any of us to give away women’s rights to privacy, safety and dignity. In however well meaning a way it is done.

M&S corporate website has some great policies aimed at improving environmental sustainability on there, so they are clearly not a company which isn’t thoughtful about how they work or what their impact could be. So I’m hopeful.

When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time.
Maya Angelou.

I think this needs to be updated to include Twitter.

When someone puts a revealing bio and a pinned tweet on their Twitter, believe them.

I am referring to the author of the above NIESR blog article.

Yes Chatty, good work has been undermined by the strong arm tactics attempts of those trying to jump ahead of the law.

An aside...
The fitting room issue is going to be discussed on Jeremy Vine show today.

Don't think it's the same Target
Target Australia Pty Ltd is part of the Wesfarmers Ltd group and has no affiliation with Target Corporation US.

Wowsers. I have to confess, I did wonder if we'd said everything there was to say on the first thread. How wrong I was. Thank you sashh and Chatty

Hmmm. So on the last thread I raised the question of whether this policy would also apply where I am in Cairo...

'Hi

Thank you for taking the time to contact us. At this time as the Cairo Store is a franchise store, they will have different advice in place.

As a business, we strive to be inclusive and therefore, we allow customers the choice of which fitting room they feel comfortable to use, in respect of how they identify themselves. This is an approach other retailers and leisure facilities have also adopted.

We understand your concerns and I want to make it clear that if any customer was to act inappropriately or cause intentional offence, the necessary action would be taken.

Thank you again for your email.

Kind regards

Alice Needham
Executive Team
Your M&S Customer Service'

I'm guessing there's no appetite for trying to roll this one out in the ME! Still won't be giving them anymore of my hard earned, though...

Oh, I posted that before I read nobody. Can anyone clarify?
I was still wrong though - I'm sure there's a lot more to come out.