It's official, Marks and Spencer have fallen

[MrsSnippyPants]

I know we have 'known' this for a while, but this is now their official response. How many 'inappropriate' incidents will be necessary before they see sense?

#BoycottM&S

So M&S's bald response to a PP's concerns about men using the bra fitting rooms is that lingerie fitting rooms are dedicated to that service only. How disingenuous.

I asked specifically about lingerie fitting rooms when I rang my local store to find out how this policy was applied on the ground. They said they would first try to persuade male customers seeking to use the lingerie fitting room to use the menswear changing room.

But if a man was insistent, they would let him in.

In other words, it is those with the least respect for women's concerns who are admitted.

But if a man was insistent, they would let him in.

And if a woman insisted she didn't want him there, I bet they would ask the woman to leave. Women's changing room.

Seeing as how they are pandering, perhaps they just want to have these.

Unisex, female, male, parent and child fitting rooms. And a females who don’t care if they share their space with a man. The same as unisex but having a little pander at those who just want to be female when it suits. How can they be offended with that?

Oh. And if a man wants to be fitted with a bra? Fine. Plenty of space for that in the front window display area.

I love Marks and Spencer. I’m never out of their food hall. But I’m not loving this.

The first time someone is assaulted, peeped on, upskirted or whatever, I hope that their appropriate action comes complete with multi million pound compensation claims.

So M&S is now anti-women and anti-Muslim. Fantastic stance there M&S.

Didn't shop their often but did sometimes get Percy pigs. Not anymore. Remember, as consumers we collectively have the ability to de-fund these companies. Your purchases do actually make a difference. Keep women safe.

There often *

Just had a similar disingenuous response from M & S. Lingerie fitting rooms are specifically designed for our bra fit service and dedicated to that service only. Yes - with men wandering in and out at will.

This powerful comment was posted under the article in the Times:
I once overheard a deeply sensitive conversation in a nearby cubicle between an empathic M&S female bra fitter, who was clearly helping a lady with a bra fitting following a recent mastectomy.
The client was tearful and emotional. I could overhear every word, and I left far sooner than intended as it felt wrong to have overheard such a deeply personal conversation.
I wonder how the lady might have felt to come out of her cubicle, and find she’d been overheard by anyone other than another woman? Surely such perfectly reasonable sensitivities have the right to be respected

I will take great pleasure in walking past the M& S food store where I usually pick up my early morning coffee and heading for the nearby Pret instead. And I will happily swerve away from the station M & S foodstore in the evenings (and save my waistline and the planet from single use plastic). And this Christmas not a single gift, food item or cracker will cross the reality front door. I am done with them. A vile company.

I've been following this thread for a couple of days and it made me reflect on taking teen DD for her first bra fitting at M&S a few months ago. We discussed it beforehand to check she was comfortable being measured by someone she didn't know. The one thing she asked me was "will it be a woman doing it?" I reassured her that it would definitely be a woman doing the measuring and fitting. Thankfully it was. If we'd gone to the shop and found a transwoman ready and waiting with the tape measure I guess we'd have had to leave

Anti Muslim? Ummmmm www.marksandspencer.com/hijab/p/clp22522579

They have just got a bit confused surely.

Bra fittings for men in the front window. Brilliant idea! 😂

The first time someone is assaulted, peeped on, upskirted or whatever, I hope that their appropriate action comes complete with multi million pound compensation claims.

Sadly, I think this is what it will take.

The thing is, it's not so much the risk of assault or peeping etc that bothers me. It's the thought of a man, any man, being just a few inches away in the next cubicle when I am in a state of undress and he is able to hear every word of my conversation with the assistant about cup sizes, fullness, etc etc.

Have the male M&S bosses not got wives and daughters? Do they not get it? And if their wives and daughters are cool with sharing bra fitting rooms with men, can they not see that some women and girls might not be? And their views matter just as much?

Well M&S bra fittings are shit anyway, so good if fewer people use the service. now I jut need to ask what's Bravissimo's policy.

I’m in complete agreement @CriticalCondition

I’m fat and ugly. Not a pity party. Just the truth. I don’t want a man overhearing how self conscious I am and hear me ask if anything can be done to hoist my chest back to nearer my neck than my knees.

I want to take my beautiful niece shopping somewhere safe. I want to be somewhere safe. I want my mam to be somewhere safe.

No one would ever ogle me but by Christ they could destroy the last little bit that keeps me going outside by making fun of me or my concerns.

I feel vulnerable enough in a changing room.

The bosses of M&S need to think on.

Powerful post, @NumbersStation. Thank you.

Was in M&S this afternoon- trying on a bra. Well, nobody would want to perve at me (traditionally built granny) but I had a good look at the cubicle.
There was an attendant- when I went in, but she had vanished by the time I came out, so no one was watching who went in or out.
There was a gap round the edge of the door- which did have a lock.
However, although the partition between cubicles was high, there was a bench so it would have been perfectly possible to stand on it to put a phone over the top.

We know that it is males who take advantage of this sort of situation- so why give that minority more opportunities? Why do the wishes of females count for so little?

Oh M&S you really haven't thought this all through have you.

You say: Lingerie fitting rooms are specifically designed for our bra fit service and dedicated to that service only.

So if someone presenting as male who identifies as female wants to be fitted for a bra, you're going to turn them away now are you?

Of course you're fucking not, because you've gone with Team Woke and not thought through the consequences or logic past virtue signalling.

You say it's exclusively for that service, but that means anyone who wants the service and says they identify as female can use that service.

Every week I think it can't get more ridiculous and every week it does.

Thankfully it was. If we'd gone to the shop and found a transwoman ready and waiting with the tape measure I guess we'd have had to leave confused

Recently, on a couple of occasions i've been presented with a man serving at the women's clothing counter at John Lewis ( gay) - and have to say I've not felt that comfortable even with that. Can't quite put my finger on it. The 'intimacy' of clothing, probably.

Also been confronted with male staff in changing rooms at Arket ( gay) - and also not very comfortable with that, either.

Off topic and I’m sure most people know but M&S food will be sold by Ocado from next September, Waitrose food is now being phased out. Like I said, off topic 😄

Just found this, Ricky Gervais had retweeted it

'Self-identifying bullsh*t causing yet more distress for women.
When are THEIR rights going to be protected?'

Replies include one from Gary (middle aged standard male)
'I feel very comfortable in the ladies bra section. Doesn't mean I should be there'

Quite so, sir, quite so.

mobile.twitter.com/piersmorgan/status/1190251931920470018

Oh good it worked.

I can answer the Ann summers question,I work in Ann summers.

Ann Summers staff have been told that even if someone LOOKS male, we must remember that on the inside they are really women, if that's what they tell us.
Ann Summers staff have been required to complete an online training course on how to fit male bodied people for a bra.
Ann Summers staff have been told that if someone male says they are trans, they should be permitted to use the fitting rooms to try on lingerie.

I don't like this, but I need to pay my bills and as far as I know this hasn't been publicised and my store has not had an increase in male bodied people asking to try things on.

now I jut need to ask what's Bravissimo's policy.

It's a store that specializes in women with big boobs, so I'd imagine that they'd be absolutely inundated with men of all varieties hoping to find a way into their changing rooms.

Although this is off-topic, this conversation reminded me of my all-time favourite Father Ted episode. For a little comic relief.

Also been confronted with male staff in changing rooms at Arket ( gay) - and also not very comfortable with that, either.

I've had male staff help out in clothing stores before and been fine with (because it was obvious that they were gay), but for lingerie? Not a bloody chance. It's just different even for those of us who're not fussed about having a man bring us another size to try on in jeans or jumpers or whatever. And if even a small percentage of women aren't OK with male staff in women's changing rooms in general (non lingerie) then there shouldn't be any.

I went to my M and S today, established they had separate m and f changing rooms and asked to speak to the manager. I explained to him why I objected to the policy and said my rights to dignity, privacy and safety were being compromised. The cubicle doors are not down to the floor and the disabled cubicle has a curtain and therefore can’t be locked. He then said that as a member of ‘the ‘community’ ie LGBTQ+ he found my views offensive. I said I actually wanted him to pass my views onto head office. I then said I would henceforth boycott the store.
I had to go elsewhere to buy a present for someone but at least a local independent benefitted.

As well as regular food shopping and some clothes, I also have their insurance products for home , cars and holiday.. I live in a small Surrey town so unlikely to have another MNer to go and use men’s changing room with - I would but daren’t on my own.

Should I email head office about what happened today? What’s the best email address? I’m so so fed up with all this - I was angry this morning but now just feel dispirited. I’ll miss using the store - my town hadn’t much to start with but I just can’t do nothing.

You should definitely email them,
and complain about him, he sounds vile and extremely rude. Personally I'm bisexual (though I don't consider myself a member of any community, and if I did, it would just be the LG &B) and I totally share your views.