It's official, Marks and Spencer have fallen

[MrsSnippyPants]

I know we have 'known' this for a while, but this is now their official response. How many 'inappropriate' incidents will be necessary before they see sense?

#BoycottM&S

I draw your attention to this story where hidden cameras have been discovered in a primary school toilet.

twitter.com/wnttgra/status/1189927393345048577?s=21

Do people really think that allowing any man who declares himself to be a woman into the female changing rooms in shops/gyms/swimming pools/etc will not result in a similar situation.

Of course those that are determined to carry out such acts will always find a way, but don’t give them a gold-plated invitation and make it easy for them FFS 🤬

www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-england-london-45336300

Here's what happened in one of my local pools where they have mixed sex changing with lockable doors.

Also note that the sex offender in question owned a soft play centre where he installed cameras in the loos to film women and children. And people tell us abusive men wouldn't do anything as difficult as saying they're trans in order to abuse. This guy based his whole career on it!

@slashlover has it spot on in their post of Thu 31-Oct-19 14:44:59

It is an employer's duty to protect the health, safety and welfare of their employees and other people who might be affected by their business. Employers must do whatever is reasonably practicable to achieve this. ... Employers have duties under health and safety law to assess risks in the workplace.

www.hse.gov.uk › employers
Employer's responsibilities: Workers' health and safety - HSE

I hope every woman who is ever perved on, filmed or assaulted, takes them to the cleaners.

It's not a trans issues thread. It's a women's issues thread

OK, fair enough - it is hyperbolic to get people frothing though, see there's been no comments on that.bit of my quote from anyone, just correcting that it's a women's issue not trans.
I mean, Marks and Spencers have fallen? WTF, just needs a voice over to go with it.

@PerspicaciaTick I had a trip to M&S planned for tomorrow. I get a lot of my clothes from there, quite a lot of shoes too. Beauty, lovely meals from the food court, candles galore at Christmas time, plus any fancy bits and bobs we want for Christmas dinner and also chocolate treats and biscuits. They won’t get a penny this year. And I’ll continue that into 2020.

@Aridane

So is the trans might be perving on you ya know not incredibly transphobic? Hun?

What, this? Did you not see the replies to it?

Once more for those at the back - this is not a 'trans' issue. People aren't worried because trans people might be perving, they are worried because men might be perving. Because 98% of sexual offences are perpetrated by males. And if you say that your female changing rooms are open to anyone who 'identifies as female' then you are essentially opening them up to any man.

As @slashlover never did come back to give a definition of 'trans' I wonder if you might be as kind as to do so?

I'm sure most of the women here know that my thread title was tongue in cheek, in the manner of words being 'literal violence' etc

it is hyperbolic to get people frothing though

Oh bore off, there is nothing 'hyperbolic' or 'frothy' about being concerned that women's safe spaces are being given away to men.

@PeterRouseTheFleshofMankind - yep - saw the replies. Just don't agree with them.

it is hyperbolic to get people frothing though, see there's been no comments on that.bit of my quote from anyone, just correcting that it's a women's issue not trans.I mean, Marks and Spencers have fallen? WTF, just needs a voice over to go with it.

Oh, so there isn't a postmodern, bourgeois, queer theory, elite movement advocating for social change that increases the risk of sexual assault and voyeurism for women and their children?

Gosh. Thanks for calming my nerves. What with me being a woman, prone to hysteria an' all.

In a world where high street retail is on its knees, this does seem like a massively retrograde step. Alienating 50% of the population (and probably a much higher percentage of their customer base) to appease a tiny minority? It makes no sense.

'm sure most of the women here know that my thread title was tongue in cheek, in the manner of words being 'literal violence' etc

I've seen the exact phrase used for other scenarios and groups too, so it doesn't sound very "tongue in cheek" to all of us.

yep - saw the replies. Just don't agree with them.

So you think it's fine that any man can go into a female changing room if he 'more comfortable' to do that? And women being uncomfortable with it are irrelevant?

Well at least you have nailed your colours to the mast I guess.

Are you going to try and back up your opinion are you one of these people who plops with 'you are all transphobic' and then fucks off the oblivion?

Are you going to give your definition of 'trans' for the rest of us?

I went into Primark the other day and wanted to try on some clothes. As the woman handed me the card to show how many items of clothing I had, she said, "just to let you know these are gender neutral changing rooms"

Well they have changed their tune!
Primark was the only shop in our local town which chucked us out one Friday afternoon last year when a couple of us were Men on Friday.
Top shop and M&S were perfectly happy for two women to use the men's.

By way of a Marks and Spencer coincidence, we went into the M & S Simply Food in our next town this afternoon. Before perusing the food, we went for a wee - and discovered that since I last used the toilets there some months ago, they've removed the separate women's and men's and installed two cubicles (both with washing facilities + sanitary bin) with both man and woman sign on them.

Fine, you might think (although this now means there are half as many toilets for women as there were previously).

Except in both of these cubicles there was piss all over the seat and on the floor. And both cubicles were absolutely filthy - which the separate women's ones were peviously not.

We asked for the manager and complained to her. She was very careful in her response, referring to 'national policy and "social issues". I told her I knew exactly what those were, that I intended to write to their head office to complain (I have done so) and that I was actually put off buying food there, because of the insanitary conditions of these toilets - we mentioned it's well known that a lot of men do not wash their hands after using the toilet and those mixed-sex toilets obliged us to use the same door handles after them.

So Premark - the store beloved by teenage girls trying on a million outfits on a Saturday shopping spree - allowing the sexes to use the same changing rooms? Will the staff be trained in how to spot the people wanting to use the facilities for dodgy reasons and how to deal with an aggressive peeping tom/Tammy?

Oh I can’t foresee any issues there at all.

So when did it move from being ‘inclusive’ to ‘unisex’ as the goal? Even more worrying.

I should add that as well as two mixed-sex cubicles, there are two disabled cubicles - marked single-sex. Obviously, we did not use either of these.

M & S account holder here. Am just in the process of closing it. I will not support a company that displays such utter contempt for the privacy and safety of women. They know that the law states that sex segregated spaces are allowable but they prefer to listen to Stonewall with their lies incorrect interpretation of the Equality Act.

They have evidently calculated that they will gain far more £££ from those who believe that removing rights of women to safe sex segregated spaces is the way to go. We'll see, but I will no longer spend my family money in their stores. There are plenty of alternatives.

Are changing rooms divided by sex? My ex would often come in with me if I was trying on and I’ve been in with him in the past. I don’t really shop in any department type stores expect Debenhams for bra’s and then I go to the changing room by the underwear area, I’ve seen men (I presume husbands/partners) waiting outside and one time a woman called hers in presumably to ask his opinion.
I do confess to trying on very little though, I generally think the mirrors and lighting are rubbish and prefer to try on at home and return. But I can’t say I’ve ever noticed anything saying men’s and woman’s, like toilets have.

M&S shareholder here - when’s the next AGM?

Will the staff be trained in how to spot the people wanting to use the facilities for dodgy reasons and how to deal with an aggressive peeping tom/Tammy?

Of course the answer will be to expect staff on minimum wage, most of whom are women, to deal with the fall out and abuse as goodness knows we could never expect middle class XY people to stay the hell out of the damn women's.

That’s what I was trying not to say 🤐