Center Parcs upholding single sex spaces?

[gcnotterf1]

www.pinknews.co.uk/2019/10/30/center-parcs-trans-woman-changing-rooms-equalities-act-victoria-hodges/

Have emailed to thank and congratulate them for correctly interpreting the EA, and to advise them I will be planning a trip there in the near future (which I indeed will).

I did caveat it at the end, that they should be aware that there are some exceptions which mean even someone with a GRC can be excluded from single sex facilities, and that it is important for women's rights that this happens. Private changing facilities have been provided for trans individuals, which is completely fair.

@Michelleoftheresistance Ghosts? Well, you only have to say that once!

Though I seriously doubt that 85% of queer people think they are possessed by ghosts. Don't you think it is just the "reporter" (Yes, I might use the term loosely here) who is a bit ... weird in the head?

It's a couple of years since I was at Whinfell centre parcs (the one Hodges is going to) but as far as I remember the women's spa changing facilities are almost entirely open plan with few to no cubicles.

I remember this as I was reasonably pregnant at the time and slightly self conscious about getting changed in front of others. I'm sure if there had been lots of cubicles I would have used one.

Surely if Hodges is not long into transition they would be more comfortable in that situation using private cubicles to avoid any potential bother. Why would they voluntarily want to go and change in front of a load of strangers when the majority of women would gladly have the opportunity to use private changing facilities if they were available? Which they are for Hodges.

We are going to Whinfell in January too.

Anyway I'm now considering identifying as a trans person so I can have a private changing room. Why wouldn't anyone not want that?!

I will be sending CP an email. I will reiterate what others have said regarding the GRC too.

In the article Hodges makes it very clear that Hodges intends to use the single-sex facilities to see if staff will challenge Hodges.

I do hope they uphold their commitment to single sex spaces.

My friend with a child with SEN went to CP very regularly when her child was younger, as they were helpful and understanding, and dc had a brilliant time.
It is great that they have recognised the need to keep single sex provision, but they can enforce that, even where someone has a GRC

Hmm I might include that in my email and link the article, and voice my concern that as I am also going in January, and Hodges seems insistent on breaking the rules, that Hodges may very well be in the female sex changing room at the same time as me and my DC. (Obviously I'm aware it might not be the same week but I doubt CP will confirm that either way).

I'm disconcerted by the insistence of Hodges wanting to use a communal female changing room.

The entitlement is breathtaking...

It appears that Hodges hopes that staff will not feel comfortable to actually enforce those boundaries when they are breached. Which is rather rude when Hodges has already asked for and been told policy, been assured there is a private gender neutral space available, and is still stating that they will still enter the female facilities without care for the females and children using the site.

Well done Centerparcs! Stay strong!

Re: AGP. There was an elderly person with breast implants at Hampstead Ladies Pond this summer, sunbathing topless, (wearing little girl style pastel, rainbow, unicorn bikini bottoms actually, that no adult woman I know would wear!) Anyway I thought 'oh well, he's just minding his own business, what's the harm?'

Next thing he starts asking the young woman nearest to him to help him put his bikini top on, and to tie it for him etc. Relying on her not feeling comfortable to say no. AGP in action.

Getting a GRC is not an ’arduous process’ ffs.

Living in the opposite gender literally means changing your name on your bloody bills and bank account etc. It’s all just paperwork. These people don’t live in the real world.

And sorry yes well done centre parcs, finally someone with some common sense.

I was happy to read that Vicky's family was pretty cool with Vicky's revelation earlier this year that Vicky wanted to present as a 'woman' (whatever the fuck that is nowadays! For Vicky it seems to be lots of shopping, and forgetting where Vicky put things and not concentrating on one thing at a time - Vicky isn't sure whether that's down to the hormones ) I don't think many of us on this board would want people to be judged by the clothes they wear, the wigs they choose to don etc.

Vicky also documents their very smooth and supported experience at work.

Vicky also seems confused as to what makes people male and female: I think I’ve come to the conclusion that I’m 90/10, Female/Male. The 10% represents the non-binary side of me, the me that could easily go out in a dress, but without the makeup and wig (rice and chips). I hadn’t quite figured that out until recently, I was under the idea that it had to be 100%, but it’s definitely OK to mix it up a little bit to where you feel your most comfortable self

(Thanks Vicky, I guess my % female goes down every time I'm 'mixing it up' by going out without my makeup on. God knows what happens when I'm in trousers too - can someone advise on the gender-generator algorithm?)

All good, Vicky. Your family accepts your new way of presenting to the world. Your work has been accepting. Hopefully, if none of this has been to the detriment of female rights or spaces, you do you.

And then.

The minute someone says ''woah there, Vicky", that's lovely but being male doesn't work in our sex-separated changing spaces.

Vicky shouts 'discrimination'. And jokes with twitter friends about 'genital inspectors'?

Vicky - you're telling me you got to 50+ years of age, and have no empathy or understanding as to why women may not want to undress alongside males, no matter what you feel inside?

Poor Vicky. Vicky didn't find much issue during Vicky's transition - until Vicky wanted 'in' on women's changing spaces.

Bingo! Let me in you genital inspector transphobes!

Uggh “rainbow , unicorn bikini bottoms” HLP used to feel such a wonderful safe space for women and girls of all ages.

Well done Center Parcs. I'm local to their HQ in rural/ex mining country and know a lot of people who work there. Really pleased with their straight to the point and balanced response.

Well done CP. CP can be expensive but plenty of parents would pay more for this sort of reassurance.

HermioneWeasley
this is a massive male individual - would be at no risk in the men’s changing room

That reminds me of a conversation with a good friend of mine recently. Who was changing at a gym with a transwoman present.

She said she felt uncomfortable.

But she said her husband would have felt even more uncomfortable with a transwoman changing in his changing rooms. Not a risk for the transwoman. The discomfort for the husband.

It made me think - a lot of this may be more about saving male's discomfort about being around someone who's not demonstrating full 'masculinity' by women budging up and making room.

She put up and shut up. She shouldn't have to.

It made me think - a lot of this may be more about saving male's discomfort about being around someone who's not demonstrating full 'masculinity' by women budging up and making room.

YY I think this is the case on many occasions. And women are expected by all to be the ones who budge up. Hence the utter rage at women who say no.

those who DO have a GRC will certainly outwardly present as female (in this case) and look no different in the changing rooms

Here's the thing - that's not actually true. Transition doesn't change a person's height or narrow wide shoulders or widen narrow hips or shrink large male typical hands or change the structure of the bones in a person's face. Acquiring a GRC doesn't require a person to have had genital surgery either, so while you may be picturing everyone with one looking like Blaire White that is very much not the case. A person can have a GRC and ID that says they're a woman and still have a cock and balls, which is a bit hard to miss in an open plan changing room.

CentreParcs aren't daft. They know their market is families and they know human males in with girls and women changing will go down like a cold cup of sick.

They don't even allow large single sex groups (I.e hen/stag parties) because they don't want to make families feel uncomfortable. People pay a premium for a reason.

CP haven't broken the law, and they have offered a suitable alternative and no reasonable person should be offended by that offer. Hodges contacted them asking what their policy would be and they have been informed. That should have been the end of it.