Center Parcs upholding single sex spaces?

[gcnotterf1]

www.pinknews.co.uk/2019/10/30/center-parcs-trans-woman-changing-rooms-equalities-act-victoria-hodges/

What she said!

I think self ID is a perverts heaven. The fact self ID if there will provide the loophole. They don’t need to self ID.

Off you go in to watch girls and women in a state of undress and undress yourself with penis obvious. Women and girls will be scared to object (quite a part from the potential punch in the face - although I believe a ‘tut’ is an effective deterrent) for fear of committing a hate crime.

Loophole to voyeurism and indecency etc - literally in full view - knowing the women and girls can’t/won’t do anything about it. Who needs to groom/ up skirt/ send a dick pick via digital media when you can do this?!

Will a female removing herself from a woman’s space be classed as ‘othering’ and a hate crime too??!!

Holy shit this is one of the most arrogant and entitled things I've ever read on MN

When someone tells you who they are, it's always best to listen.

Or, do you exclude trans women on exception when it’s appropriate to do so?

It's always appropriate to do so. Our privacy and dignity is sufficient. Why do you think sex segregated spaces exist?

It's always appropriate to do so.

Yes. Preventing harassment is always a legitimate aim. Excluding any male person from a female space is always a proportionate means because the presence of just one male person makes it mixed sex for everybody.

We have the right not to have our dignity violated. We have the right not to be subjected to an intimidating, hostile, degrading, humiliating or offensive environment, based on the PC of sex.

That's what the single sex exceptions are for.

We need to bring harassment cases. Happy to dig.

You could start here Diomoon www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3145470-Break-it-down-for-me

but I was under the belief that Transgender Women are women

No, but it's a mantra some people like to chant.

The best I can do for now is to direct you towards this thread:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3145470-Break-it-down-for-me

There's lots of links and reading on there - but Datun's post on the first page is a pretty good synopsis.

Everard beat me to it!

Diamoon

You are not an idiot.
Certain groups have taken it upon themselves to change the meanings of words to suit themselves.
It does get confusing.

Trans women are male.
They will always be Male.
Being a woman is simply being an adult human female. It's not the clothes you wear or the name you use.
Trans men are females.
They always wil be.
Wearing trousers and taking hormones will not make them male.

Sex is the important fact. It is unchangeable in humans.
Gender is made up stereotypes based on societies view of how the 2 sexes should dress/behave/live their life.

Diomoon transmen are as entitled as any other female to use female facilities.

Transwomen are as entitled as any other male to use male facilities.

Significant numbers of women do not consent to males of any identity using female facilities. Apparently this is controversial.

Why did Diomoon get deleted?

Oops seems I missed a page answering Diamoon. Why have their posts been deleted?

PBP perhaps?

Still haven’t answered one simple question, how do you enforce sex segregated spaces in an objective way?

You could y’know admit that such a policy is wholly impossible to enforce, so exclusion by exemption, as written in the EA, is actually the only practical way of managing the situation.

Otherwise, please tell me how you prevent a biological man claiming to be a trans man to access your spaces?

Bronners how do you make sure no one breaks into anyone's house ever? The answer is that you can't guarantee it but you can put various things in place to try to reduce it. People have answered this question below. There is no 100% foolproof way, but we can do our best to minimise it as much as possible.

I think it is easy to be caught up in the ‘transwomen are women’ mantra - particularly with the need to be inclusive of minority groups.

You have to think what this actually means as everything flows from that.

However the bald facts are that to be a trans woman you first have to be male - which means by definition you can’t be female. I can’t be a transwomen because I am female. They have to be trans because they are male.

No one can materially change sex - grow testes/ sperm if female or develop eggs, carry a baby and give birth if male.

We ALL know this. Even those who say TWAW.

The other (emerging) problem is that to include males within the definition of womanhood, women are often now being defined out of womanhood.
I’ve seen:

• Women with mastectomies analogous to trans women - See Scottish GRA thread

-Any problems with fertility - I.e. women with polycystic ovary syndromes (higher than normal testosterone) classed as ‘intersex’ to imply sex isn’t dimorphic (notice they ignore the involvement of ovaries for this clearly female and common condition) -Women who have had hysterectomies.

Note - Angelina Jolie wouldn’t be classed as female by some trans activists - she went public with her preventative mastectomies / removal of ovaries/ Fallopian tubes.

The trouble is reality is now defined as bigotry by those with a loaded interest.

Also I would be very alarmed if a trans male was sent to a male prison.

An 'honour system' would be one where all male people behave honourably by staying the fuck out of female spaces.

There will always be predators and persistent fuckers who don't take no for an answer.
Do we have to start training service providers? Maybe we should put together an information pack. We could use this thread and other similar resources:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3348290-It-will-never-happen-resource-thread

Thin
I think it is easy to be caught up in the ‘transwomen are women’ mantra - particularly with the need to be inclusive of minority groups.You have to think what this actually means as everything flows from that.

Yes, and your 'everything flows' river analogy doesn't have to flow that far for many people to find out what it actually means.

Before you even get to the 'gotchas' of PCOS and female mastectomies.

My visual post got deleted yesterday, unsurprisingly. I had a positive interaction with MNHQ about it (soz to all the external monitor network who think we run off sadly and hurt after getting a deletion - we're grown ups and have a chat!)

I'm not sure how to frame this next bit to stay within guidelines, but hopefully it will.

When I see some of the visitors to these threads, particularly those celebrating entering what used to be female-only spaces, I wander off to look at their other social media, not to try to find things to laugh about, or stuff to post here to try to get unkind comments at them.

(And mostly, the posters on this board unfailingly stay away from unkind comments, as do I. This isn't about how you look, or the clothes or gendered stereotypes you choose to adhere to. This is about whether you're male attempting to access female spaces)

When I go looking, I'm trying to understand them, their perspective, and who they are from what they present on social media. I really want to try to get their point of view.

And 9 times out of 10, what I see is unsettling,

But as I'm not permitted to share what I see here, I'd encourage others to do the same wandering and wondering.

I think a lot of people are still caught in the 'Hayley from Corrie' sympathy-vortex.

I think it is easy to be caught up in the ‘transwomen are women’ mantra Once you've done a little wandering, it's less easy to be caught up in this mantra.

Particularly as those shouting the loudest tend to be the ones you'd be most unsettled by.

so exclusion by exemption, as written in the EA, is actually the only practical way of managing the situation.

Yes, the single sex exceptions in the EA allow service providers to exclude all males from female only spaces. They are indeed the most practical way for service providers to avoid harassing us by making us share facilities with any males.

Did you think the EA said something different?

LangClegsInSpace
Yes, the single sex exceptions in the EA allow service providers to exclude all males from female only spaces. They are indeed the most practical way for service providers to avoid harassing us by making us share facilities with any males.

Did you think the EA said something different?

Boom!

inSpace that was meant to be a beautiful Not sure what happened there!

If you cannot tell all trans women are trans, how does a service provider ensure that any rule that always excludes all trans women cannot be breached?

You still haven’t answered that one simple question.