Christmas is just a load of wifework: discuss

[drspouse]

DH and I have a collaborative approach to Christmas though he tends to want to do less than I do in terms of activities, as our DS needs a bit of structure I usually overrule him.
He writes more Christmas cards than I do as we only do them for elderly relatives who don't have email and he has more of them.
However all family just want me to give them suggestions for presents for the DCs.
And could you just send me a link.
And what does DH want.
Oh can't you just buy it and I'll pay you back. Can't you wrap it too?
And the mums on FB... My goodness. And here too. I bet all the dads are not wrapping up the living room door and moving the elf and buying reindeer food. And working out which relative won't eat smoked salmon canapes and when to get their Ocado slot. And if they'll fit into their slinky dress for the work party.
It's just the whole year of sexism multiplied by 65 million isn't it?

Off topic, but would it be really difficult to make the bold function work across multiple sentences/paragraphs?

To the OP, I think the best advice has been given. Start small but know that declining certain tasks won't be the end of the world. Your family will adjust. Do the same again next year. Or perhaps tell them this is what you're doing, they may offer to take that task on themselves. Or they might surprise you and say they aren't that bothered. Either one would ease your load.

3times you don’t have to never see them again though to opt out of doing stuff you don’t like. If you don’t want to host, ask them when you can visit. If you don’t want to cook, say this year you want to go out for dinner. If you don’t want to get presents, say you’re budgeting and cutting down and no need to buy for you. If you want them to do more, say you’re doing a buffet this year and would like everyone to bring a dish. If your husband doesn’t do enough, tell him what things you’re not doing and if he wants them to happen he can do them himself. There are plenty of ways to be assertive and not end up doing more than you want without cutting people out completely.

It's really interested to see this thread in feminism chat rather than AIBU? or Relationships. It's particularly interesting as though this thread is not as harsh as AIBU? there is still that weird obtuseness of some posters who can't understand that some families are harder work than others.

Acknowledging that people will have absorbed different levels of gendered expectation and have different levels of resource to cope with that is surely the basis of any inclusive feminism. At Christmas or otherwise!

Acknowledging that people will have absorbed different levels of gendered expectation and have different levels of resource to cope with that is surely the basis of any inclusive feminism

But for some women it goes beyond simply asking that be acknowledged. It has to be acknowledged to not only exist but be impossible for individual women to do anything about. The acknowledgement seems pretty pointless if all it does is acknowledge it and wait for society to do something about it.

But we need to provide women with the resource to cope with tackling gendered expectation, not tell them off for not trying harder!

If you do loose people it’s usually a bonus. They are the ones that you tolerate because you have to for some odd reason. They don’t really bring anything positive with them.

And if you say I’m not hosting this year and they make it a deal. It’s their problem. If your ill it’s their problem to deal with. Anyone who tried to get me to cook would be told to fuck off somewhere else. Unless the dcs who were told to ask the others, not that they’ve done it since toddlers.

Despite all this and not giving up beds or serving endless cups of tea, people don’t care. They come back and the ones that didn’t like it, in all honesty they haven’t been missed. You realise the ones that always want something, like wrap the presents when they arrive, take up your emotional and physical time far too much over the year.

Traditions are started at home. Masses of money on presents, elf on the shelf, reindeer food, Christmas Eve boxes. If all these and more can become traditional in peoples homes then why can you not set your own traditions? You really think the ones that did the eve boxes stopped and thought oops no it will upset all the other kids in the class? They considered what was important within their home surely? The only thing stopping you from making changes is you.

If it seems too much to do at once, start small, we aren’t doing cards this year because of the environment instead of I cannot be bothered anymore.

People who want everything cooked for them. Great go to a restaurant then. You eat you are involved in it. Cannot work out how to boil a potato, whilst your googling that and other cooking methods, you can also find out how to peel them.

That really annoys me. I do all the cooking because my partner cannot? Really they are incapable of reading the instructions on a packet of pasta? I know some cannot because of health reasons, but you find at least they try. Unlike the hugely qualified professional who cannot do it —be arsed—

What resources are needed though to get the lazy off their ass and cook dinner or go shopping in the guise of I cannot do it? Other than give both of them a head wobble?
If we cannot tackle gendered expectations within our own homes how can we expect society to do so?
What message does that say? How can we expect men to change and take us serious, when at home his partner says she won’t write his cards but does anyway. I’m not saying all working woman just do it anyway but a lot do. And who are they doing it for? Usually a man.

@dodgeballcamp Thanks for that. Years back after our first Christmas married we put a lot of fences in place but unfortunately given the ages of parents/ILs now and the family set-ups it is ... difficult. I can't in all conscience ask an 80+ year old (or two) to spend Christmas alone just because they don't really float my boat. I am very capable of pushing back (even though it is culturally foreign to my dh's family (we're the same nationality but it doesn't always feel it)) but this would be a step too far even for me. But I do appreciate the advice. I think I have largely accepted that Christmas is a time of irritation for me ... but I take solace in mince pies and good wine. So all is not lost!

I don't do elf on the shelf.
I do all the purchasing of presents. For his family too. I do all the Christmas activities with smalls but I'm a SAHM.
He does help wrap and does cook Christmas dinner. Seems fine to me.

The thing is, do all the women who don't want to do Christmas still expect people to come to them?

My issue is slightly different to others on here (though admittedly I have only just had children) in that I love Christmas but have pretty good boundaries over the amount of consumerism that I am willing to indulge in and that in turn limits what I do. However, my PILs ABSOLUTLY HATE Christmas and the work involved. They expect us to turn up, spend several days with them while they are being miserable (was once tricked into five days) while they plays the role of terrible host/don't really think about food etc while refusing to countenance us helping, staying somewhere else or even going to see them at a different time.

Basically, who owes who what in this scenario?

Never thought to call it a load of wifework but that's a brilliant descriptor. Christmas is stressmas for many women but especially wives/partners and mothers. It seems to me every year I morph into some weird 1950s version of myself. At no other time of the year do I do everything but Christmas I suddenly take on the mantle of Mrs. Do It All. And I'm not even a Mrs nor a mum. Just not immune from the virus of wifework! Cos I was born a woman...

Underhis I honestly wouldn’t be going back. They don’t want you there but won’t accept help. If partner wanted to stay in contact very occasionally would they visit and enjoy my house rules.

Wouldn’t surprise me when your not around they moan to anyone about how you do nothing. The martyr.

I know will say you cannot do it to family. Who says? I cut off all mine back in secondary. Tried a few years later and worse. Gave it a third and final chance a few years ago. They are still the same abusive arseholes. Not good role models to be around my children.

In my house and those I chose to spend a prolonged amount of time with, I only think about them as a person not by their sex. A lot of mums/women don’t get to pick and choose what part of parenting or even being an adult they want to do. Yet fathers/men get to drop out of cooking, shopping, cleaning etc. Why aren’t you saying to your partners there is no excuse? Cannot do it, what they really saying they would go without food and clean clothes? Of course not, they’d either try and find another’mum’ or learn like the rest of us. .

But we need to provide women with the resource to cope with tackling gendered expectation, not tell them off for not trying harder!

Is that not exactly what people are doing on this thread though, giving advice on how to resist? You can’t complain about it if you’re not willing to individually do something about it

Christmas is a relatively new holiday with most customs borrowed heavily from ancient Rome, the Celts, and the Norse (Saturnalia rural farmers celebrating end of planting season and the beginning of longer daylight; Yule festival; pagan and secular celebrations).

These ancient festivals/celebrations were cobbled together to create Christmas.

Originally a time of hedonistic excess, drinking, feasting, and gift giving to celebrate seasonal changes (incl. sun and god/goddess worshipping etc.) winter solstice (what most groups were celebrating back to time immemorial) is the real reason for the holiday season. Mistletoe as a tradition came from the Norse use to ward off evil spirits.

Consumerism has captured so many under the guise of 'properly celebrating' a holiday that we've lost the holiday's purpose. The purpose of the holiday wasn't and isn't (for most) celebrating the approximate birth of Jesus on 12/25 somewhere between 9CE and 4CE - with most accepted date being in 7CE. It also isn't about running yourself ragged... the purpose of the season is to enjoy life, family/friends, to give to others as thanks for the year's bounty, to feast, and to rest. I mean that's the crux of it right?

Did you know that the Puritans made Christmas illegal in Massachusetts from 1659-1681 because it was derived from paganism?

Men constructed these religious trappings and concepts to serve them. Freud was a messed up dude but he hit the nail on the head with Madonna-whore complex. You don't have to do Wifework to be good, you don't have to overdo holidays to be a good mom/wife/relative, you don't have to meet socialized expectations to be good. But you do have to be good to yourself by setting boundaries and managing expectations so you can feel good. Saying no may not be easy but it is necessary. Stripping back family traditions and examining them in order to reimagine them is necessary for progress. Pressure is difficult, but your kids will appreciate more that you are relaxed and enjoying yourself while spending time with them more than they will appreciate all the extra unnecessary bells and whistles. My friends speak of their mothers as frazzled stressed women during the holidays (regardless of religion) and remember their fathers relaxing - we had a long talk about it at our last dinner. The consensus (including the more affluent childhood experiences - both parents were distant, lots of bells and whistles but no substance) was that the happiest holiday memories were not full of bells and whistles but smiles and shared joy.

Never forget your kids can always tell when you aren't happy whether they let you know or not. What's more important? Your kids remembering awesome holidays with you engaged and happy or remembering that you were stressed and running yourself ragged with a plastic smile plastered on your face all in effort to please everyone but yourself?

Change is difficult for some but it is the best catalyst for personal growth. Your DDs and DSs need to see you model behavior that will lead them to fulfilling lived as adults, don't trap them by example in sexed holiday-work dichotomy to suit your DH's or other adult's expectations.

Break the cycle.

/rant fin

Excellent post @StopThePlanet 👏very informative too.

Bluewavescrashing

🤓Thanks!

The women I know who are run ragged before, during and after Christmas often say something like, "well, if I don't do it, nobody will, and then Christmas will be ruined". There's a fair dollop of martyrdom in there too, of course.

But Christmas won't be ruined, it will still be fun. Even if the mince pies are from Aldi, and the roast potatoes from Aunt Bessie. Even if everyone gets an Amazon voucher instead of a lovingly chosen unique gift. Even if the cards aren't handmade and the children have to wear their usual pyjamas. And if anyone moans, they can volunteer for some duties in 2020. Better still, they can do the un-decorating of the house on Twelfth Night.

It seems to me every year I morph into some weird 1950s version of myself. At no other time of the year do I doeverythingbut Christmas

I don't know what it was like in the 50s but I remember Christmases from the mid 60s onwards. I don't remember it being anything like the bloated, commercial tat fest it has morphed into.

I've always been fairly well off so restrained Christmases were not as a result of lack of funds. So where are all these inescapable "traditions" and "expectations" coming from?

there is still that weird obtuseness of some posters who can't understand that some families are harder work than others.

This is why I pointed out that my inlaws are no problem at all, it's my own family on one side that would drive me mental if I let them. Not everyone has the option of moving thousands of miles away, for some those people will turn up on your doorstep, with no warning if they're particularly pushy/rude. Not everyone is in the same situation in regards to how much pressure they're under.

There is still that weird obtuseness of some posters who can't understand that some families are harder work than others

There is equally that weird obtusness of some posters who can't understand that change has to be instigated by them - in their families. Moaning about it, playing the martyr, setting an unhealthy example to their own sons and daughters does no good. These individual women are part of society- they can effect change in their own lives.

Why is it that the solution to a wifework problem is for women to accept a lesser standard overall, rather than men doing more to assist?

@𝙢𝙞𝙣𝙞𝙥𝙞𝙚 here parents got together and reminded the school it was additional pressure, especially a financial one on parents who might not be able to afford it. And we suggested bring an old T-shirt and decorate it and there’s also your art lesson.

@ffswhatnext sure, that solves the financial wastefulness of Christmas jumper day (which was just one example of Christmas wifework/motherwork). But it doesn’t solve the work aspect.

You say “parents got together” - was it mostly mums or dads who were discussing and suggesting this solution? Bet it was mostly mums. “Bring an old t shirt” - who was it who had the job of finding
an old t shirt they didn’t mind being drawn on? Bet it was (mostly) the mum.

Why is it that the solution to a wifework problem is for women to accept a lesser standard overall, rather than men doing more to assist?

Everyone has said that if there is stuff that really needs to happen, everyone should contribute.

But it is also the case that men overall seem less likely to buy into what might be considered optional or unnecessary tasks. It's women that get into this "I must create a perfect Christmas for my kids" thing, whether because they are targeted by those selling perfect Christmases, or because they are more tuned into social fads - I suspect the latter is more the reason and the cause of the former.

So, given that Christmas has become so very bloated, if women are feeling overwhelmed, why would we suggest getting men more intwined with that, rather than than taking stock of what needs to be done.

My dh would think I was nuts if I asked him to do a lot of these things, and I doubt he'd help, even though he's usually pretty good about doing his part.

minipie

I think you could take the same principle and simply advocate to lose the whole event. I really don't see the point, it doesn't even seem all that fun and you end up with a shirt you never wear again.