Christmas is just a load of wifework: discuss

[drspouse]

DH and I have a collaborative approach to Christmas though he tends to want to do less than I do in terms of activities, as our DS needs a bit of structure I usually overrule him.
He writes more Christmas cards than I do as we only do them for elderly relatives who don't have email and he has more of them.
However all family just want me to give them suggestions for presents for the DCs.
And could you just send me a link.
And what does DH want.
Oh can't you just buy it and I'll pay you back. Can't you wrap it too?
And the mums on FB... My goodness. And here too. I bet all the dads are not wrapping up the living room door and moving the elf and buying reindeer food. And working out which relative won't eat smoked salmon canapes and when to get their Ocado slot. And if they'll fit into their slinky dress for the work party.
It's just the whole year of sexism multiplied by 65 million isn't it?

Yes I suppose motherwork is more accurate than wifework, for me at least. Then the question is, why don’t (many) fathers do it?

I thought I had posted yesterday.

I do a lot. Because I plan ahead and organize over months and know when bookings open (Santa steam train used to open in June and be booked out by mid-July, DH would ask in October if we could do that again this year).

I write my cards across the autumn while on planes for work travel. I plan presents and buy things year round when I see things good for particular people. But DH tends to take the lead on DD’s main present- ideas and buying. And will organize his DM and some others too.

We share the cleaning and decorating.

We share the meal prep and clearing away.

DH will do things to make it magic in his own way and time.

I know I do more but I love the season and enjoy the planning. But DH doesn’t abandon me to it and see it as wifework. He just needs to do things more in the moment than weeks/months ahead. So it works well for us.

But DH is a good’un anyway. He can cook (recently it’s fallen more to me but that’s a work problem) and we split it so the cook doesn’t do clearing up. He’s better at organizing the laundry than me, and took over all the ironing (from just his own) when dd was born as he couldn’t feed her - she’s 13 and he still does it almost every week. We split regular cleaning. He does a lot of school runs and stands on the side of pitches cheering.

I know I tend to have the mental load organizing and planning the family (bills, dr’s and dentist appointments, menu planning and food shopping etc) but he builds savings and other stuff. And if things go bananas either of us will pick up the others reins and keep it together .

A feminist analysis and suggestions for how to change society.

Yes, but what is wrong with being the change, especially if you are a mother? OP, you seem really down on women who haven't bought into the xmas martyr shit as being unsisterly, when I feel we are leading the change for our sisters by modelling the alternative.

That’s easy! Because Christmas is the biggest holiday for children.
All things children is considered motherwork, with only a few exceptions that are fatherwork.

And when it comes to entertaining others, he will do whatever needs doing for my plan - he may try to simplify it for me (possibly necessary!) but he will get on and share the load fairly. Just don’t ask him to do the pre-planning of invites and menus etc.

Motherwork seems more fitting. Child free couples don't have the ball ache of much of the stuff to do.

Luckily (in a way) I'm ill and incapacitated this year so although I'm not working I have leverage to say, no, I'm not doing that. I'll only do stuff the children really enjoy, eg the basics, plus stuff I enjoy and can tolerate on top. DH opts out of most Christmas activities and hates consumerism so he's easily pleased. It helps that we've never done the elf etc as it's harder to stop once you've started. Stopping Christmas cards was fine though. I just didn't send any last year, nobody complained, most probably didn't notice, and life went on.

If society encouraged more stay at home fathers, I think we would see that divide of motherwork and fatherwork blur away. So long as the majority of stay at home parents or part time workers are women, most children related things will be viewed as motherwork. Expectations come from stereotypes based on majority realities.

I wonder about countries that are minority Christian. Are Christmas celebrations more simple with fewer expectations?

Love your posts nonny and minipie. This is FWR at its best - discussing what we can really do and how it works. Although I think there’s a huge amount of resistance, misunderstanding and blindness regarding feminism, It has made and does make progress in this way. We are further on than in the 70s, and the 90s, as well as the 1910s.

Someone gave the example of Christmas jumper day and yy then there is an expectation your DC will take part so they don't miss out. But I don't think there is a general consensus that their 'mum' must buy the jumper. DH does all our laundry. He'd have a better idea than I do if DS needed a new jumper or if the old one would still fit. He's just as likely to buy a christmas jumper as I am. atm the big topic of discussion in our DC's life is their Hallowe'en costume. DH took them to buy it. I didn't assume that burden as a wife and mother. (And DC knew they were more likely to wangle an inappropriately scary costume out of DH).
I'm not belittling the capitalist pressure to consume or the patriarchal pressure to ensnare women into wife and mother work. But I think the personal is the political and we need to have those little acts of rebellion that try to 'unsex' those expectations so our DCs can see it can be different and that having a vagina doesn't mean you carry all the emotional labour.

I do pretty much everything for Christmas here except cooking on Christmas Day. I enjoy it and dh isn’t particularly enthusiastic about it, so whilst it looks unfair on paper we are both happy with the arrangement

I think the person who is wants to do the Christmas things should do the Christmas things. Quite a few posters have said their DH is more bothered about xmas than them. That's fine, then the DH should do the necessary things (and it sounds like they do, from the posters).

If I felt the need to chew carrots, elf on the shelf, etc. and DH thought it was uneccesary, silly and over the top, then of course I'd end up doing them.

The only pressure I feel is from my parents. As Larkin said, parents fuck you up, and I always feel pressure to impress them when hosting which leads to huge stress.
DH is always telling me to cook less, buy less booze, etc and he's right. I cook for about 20 when there's only two of them (and we end up with leftovers for a week). In recent years I've been listening to him and preparing smaller (but still plenty) amounts.
The world hasn't ended, and nobody has complained.

Dh and I both love Christmas and share it equally. We shop and cook between us whilst tag-teaming with childcare. Putting up decorations is a big family event.

My mum does keep asking me what to buy everyone what to buy though which drives me completely insane!

what if, let’s say, school does a Christmas jumper day. Don’t you feel pressure to organise jumpers for your DC?

My children are in their early 20s now so Christmas jumpers weren't a thing when they were at school but I know the local schools don't do Christmas jumper days as I work with them. But this is a poor area where schools are acutely aware that many families don't have money to spare and are careful not to put pressure on them. We were never asked, for example, to provide costumes for nativity plays, the school did that.

This is one area where I think it is easier to be poor in a poor area than poor in a wealthier area where expectations are different and schools perhaps less thoughtful. There is also a well known issue around poorer pupils in wealthier areas missing out because funding tends to be directed to poor schools rather than poor individuals so it is harder for schools that don't qualify for funding to support those families that are struggling financially.

OP I agree that a few individual women opting out of tasks society expects of them won’t change the world - wider structures and messaging needs to change too - but it would be the beginning of something. One person opts out, tells their friends, friends start thinking and discussing it, maybe talking about it with colleagues too, a feminist writer writes about it and brings it to a wider audience, a campaign begins to show more dads in Christmas adverts... etc. Making a change as an individual is the start. You seem to be saying ‘until society says it’s fine for women to opt out, I won’t be doing that’ which is silly.

Like PP I really don’t like this notion of women as hapless victims unable to stop acting out their passive socialisation. That is certainly not true of all women who are distinct individuals. Of course the societal pressure affects everyone - whether that’s doing it or having some people call you selfish or cold for not doing it - but you can recognise and be aware of that without saying ‘oh well, nothing I can do’. So fucking what if people moan or say you’re selfish? Selfishness is underrated.

I grew up in a household where my dad didn’t lift a finger and instead of then being conditioned to see all domestic tasks as women’s work I actually, as a kid, took after his laziness. I saw him doing bugger all and thought right, if he’s doing nothing I don’t have to either. As I got older I realised how unfair it was and promised myself I’d never do all the running like my mum did. I’m still pretty lazy but manage to keep my own home and life in order (just about) and have no intention or desire of taking that on for a partner’s family as well. I make that clear pretty early on to potential partners that that simply isn’t me. I also think about and discuss a lot with friends the impact of patriarchal ideas on women and how my own life is my little feminist rebellion, because of the things I simply refuse to do and I make that very clear. Many friends have expressed admiration and said they want to be more like me. So yes, while one woman saying no won’t change society overnight it can improve things for you and perhaps get people around you thinking. You seem very resistant to the concept of being an individual and pleasing yourself - why is that?

in addition to all the 'wifework' many companies have end of year administration going on at the same time.
for working women that is an additional stress that makes christmas unbearable.

I'm obviously not wishing death and destruction on our extended families but they are the source of a huge amount of the "wifework" that comes my way.

This is going to sound harsh, but this is why I rarely talk to my dad's family any more. Dad himself is fine, but the rest of his family have for the most part always been a nightmare of guilt tripping, pressure applying, gender role enforcing shittiness, and that's why I distanced myself in the first place. My in-laws are actually great, it's my own relatives that create problems, and that's why I avoid them. There's also a level of resentment there from years of watching them try to turn my mother into a drudge - didn't work, but even as a child I could see what they were doing and it pissed me off. Occasionally there's a why oh why has Kittens forsaken us missive aimed at me via my dad and he ums and ahs and tries to dodge the subject.

Not sure what your options would be if you wanted to maintain closer contact with the wannnabe gender role police relatives. If I was expected to have them in my house I'd be tempted to install a moat with sharks in.

OP I agree that a few individual women opting out of tasks society expects of them won’t change the world

"Be the change you want to see in the world" - Ghandi may or may not have said this, but it holds true.
To be honest, I don't really recognise the "wifework" experience among my friends and family, with one or two notable exceptions. Most are pretty equitable.

you seem really down on women who haven't bought into the xmas martyr shit as being unsisterly, when I feel we are leading the change for our sisters by modelling the alternative.
There's nothing wrong with saying "I refuse to be a Christmas martyr" but loads wrong with "so if you struggle with Christmas it's therefore your fault, just RESIST".

You seem to be saying ‘until society says it’s fine for women to opt out, I won’t be doing that’ which is silly.
I see so many stressed friends and I can say "you don't HAVE to do that" all I want but they continue to be stressed, by society's expectations, their wider family's expectations and their DCs' expectations.
And some of them are building up their DCs' expectations that this is what women do - I think of one instamum who has two sons and a waste of space DP who has the BEST staged photos etc. etc., a high powered job, her boys are growing up to think Dad sulks and Mum organises everything and that's how it's perfect. And another I can think of with a lovely DH but she's the one who's stressing over the Elf/meals/how can I get it all done.

There is something in the "motherwork" thing but before I had DCs, I had a poorly MIL and it was expected that I'd contribute to her care (and to ideas for her gifts, taking her out for Christmas etc.) in ways that nobody would expect my DH to do for my DM.

DH doesn’t abandon me to it and see it as wifework. He just needs to do things more in the moment than weeks/months ahead. So it works well for us.
In other words, poor little man brain, I have to do the thinking for us.

I wonder about countries that are minority Christian. Are Christmas celebrations more simple with fewer expectations?
Very much so, but it's still women doing it!
I've lived in a majority Muslim area in an evenly split country, so Christmas was a public holiday (it is after all a prophet's birthday for Muslims). Christmas was a day to be at home with family (especially if tacked on to a long weekend, and everyone tended to take leave to be off over New Year as well), go to church, and have a special meal (cooked by the women of course). Maybe new clothes for the kids (bought/made by the women).
Eid was similar, new clothes, special meals, and a big evening out in some areas. Though taking the kids out was more of a dad thing to do (mums wouldn't be going out to a large evening public do on their own, and some won't want to travel to their home area either with just the kids, for safety reasons). But that is because it's not that easy for women to travel on their own (so some fear it, and some are not allowed by their families, but some do e.g. if they are independent/working). So women from more traditional families would be at home cooking anyway.
But some of that is due to a more traditional society anyway (and poorer so no money for toys).
I think you might need to look at e.g. Israel for a rich but non-Christian pattern.

Though maybe with the "this is making me so stressed but I can't stop" friends I need to be direct: Stop. Now. You are buying into the patriarchy.
And with the "I'll make it perfect so my boys will learn that's what women are for" friends the same "Stop letting your DP teach your boys how to be a lazy bloke".
But then again, I could end up with no friends.

It seems to me that if the options are 1) stop doing the things I don't want to and tell friends to stop doing the things they don't want to, and 2) change society, then option 1 has the most immediate impact and the most chance of success.
2) is such a nebulous cop out - like the political idealists who just sit around talking about "the system needs to be changed" and achieve nothing.

deydo I agree - that’s what I was saying. It may not change the world but it is a start.

OP, when you say ‘it’s expected’ about your MIL and Christmas, do you stop and challenge it? Who’s expecting it? Nip it in the bud before people start seeing it as your job. It sounds like people expect it from you now and will be surprised if you suddenly refuse but you’ll have to just go through that stage to make it clear you won’t be running about after everyone anymore. If they want things to happen they can do it themselves

drspouse maybe 'I give you permission to stop'?
That is one of the areas where I think MN is invaluable. For many women, it's the first place where they're told it's ok to stop. It's ok to leave abusive relationships, etc. Permission is a big stumbling block for people pleasers and for women in a society that demands conformity.
Your point about taking on the burden of care for MIL reminded me of my BIL. When MIL was ill, DSIL (her DIL not her DD) took on quite a lot of the caring burden. BIL pointed it out to me implying someone else had to step up to help his wife. I said it wouldn't be me. I had DCs to look after. My way of 'contributing to care' would be to watch my own DCs sometimes to allow DH to look after his DM. BIL reacted very badly to that. It's fair to say our relationship still hasn't recovered almost a decade later. But I'd be damned if I was rushing round after his and DH's mother whilst her sons sat at home like little princes.

@dodgeballchamp my MIL is now deceased so it's no longer an issue. But of course other relatives still ask me Christmas related things and the bud is way, way too mature to be nipped! As I say, most things are fairly equal between DH and I though so I can refer people to him.
Maybe he won't mind wrapping presents that my relatives CBA to wrap?

@KatyCarrcan that is an excellent suggestion.
I do see the "but it's no trouble to make things/cook/think up presents/the DCs love the reindeer food" on here as well. Maybe we should invade the Christmas board and say this too?

A bit of an aside but WTF is reindeer food? I don't think anyone in my family does this. Is this something you set out alongside mince pies "for Santa"?