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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

A picture speaks a thousand words. Transwomen in women’s sport

341 replies

LemonGingerCakes · 23/10/2019 22:23

I've never started a thread like this before, but this is bothering me.

No comments. Just letting the pictures speak.

Spot the transwoman.

How is this fair?

A picture speaks a thousand words. Transwomen in women’s sport
OP posts:
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38
AnyOldPrion · 23/01/2021 11:52

I apologize. I thought the Guardian article was about Cece Telfer, but it wasn’t. So yet another athlete taking medals from women.

highame · 23/01/2021 13:11

I don't think it's going to take too long for the unfairness to really kick in. I'm tempted to say, let this one run and let's see an Olympics allowing trans-athletes and ask the world what they think

Mind you, loads of countries with higher than high levels of misogyny might be clapping and cheering. Saudi Arabia would be able to compete in all the disciplines, wont that be nice

crosstalk · 23/01/2021 14:36

Just asking - I read somewhere but can't find it. A medical report that says the apparent male advantage, physically, comes before puberty and as early as under 5 years old. Which sounds reasonable since male children appear to be mostly stronger, even if the growth spurt comes with puberty.

andyoldlabour · 23/01/2021 14:53

AnyOldPrion

There are currently four (at least) high profile track and field transgender college athletes in the US - Terry Miller, Andraya Yearwood, CeCe Telfer and June Eastwood. It must be so disheartening for the girls to take part in these events.

www.nbcconnecticut.com/news/local/teen-involved-in-lawsuit-to-block-transgender-athletes-beats-competitor-targeted-in-case/2223944/

www.outsports.com/2020/6/4/21277745/pride-2020-cece-telfer-ncaa-track-and-field-division-ii-nationals-championship-transgender-athlete

newstalk955.com/um-transgender-athlete-at-center-of-legal-battle-in-idaho/

andyoldlabour · 23/01/2021 14:58

crosstalk

The following article has a chart which shows testosterone production in males from birth.

androgenhacker.com/testosterone-levels

JellySlice · 23/01/2021 14:58

non-transgender girls

🤯

andyoldlabour · 23/01/2021 15:01

non-transgender girls

If only there was just one word Confused

AnyOldPrion · 23/01/2021 15:01

It must indeed, andyoldlabour.

I was struck after I’d posted by something I hadn’t noticed before. In the photo I added, Telfer is standing on the same level as the two flanking women and not on a podium above them, as I originally assumed. The difference in size and limb length is extraordinary.

Quadzilla · 23/01/2021 15:06

This thread on Twitter really does speak a thousands words.
twitter.com/MirandaNewsom/status/1352635083887431687?s=20

NorthernIrishFeminist · 23/01/2021 15:12

@AnyOldPrion

It must indeed, andyoldlabour.

I was struck after I’d posted by something I hadn’t noticed before. In the photo I added, Telfer is standing on the same level as the two flanking women and not on a podium above them, as I originally assumed. The difference in size and limb length is extraordinary.

Wow I had to go back and look, even thinking they were on a higher podium than the girls flanking them the difference in sex was stark. When you realise all three are standing on the same podium it’s even more shocking
andyoldlabour · 23/01/2021 15:33

NorthernIrishFeminist

Maxine Blythin played men's league cricket in 2018, played for Kent women's championship winning team in 2019 and was voted Kent women's club player of the year. Bear in mind that male players use heavier bats than females and the ball in women's cricket is smaller than that used in the men's game. The boundaries ar also shorter in the women's game.

www.skysports.com/cricket/news/12123/11870243/maxine-blythin-transgender-cricketer-reveals-birth-condition

NorthernIrishFeminist · 23/01/2021 23:55

andyoldlabour I remember having to drop the sport I was good at as a teenager because I couldn’t find a club that took girls.

Feels like women only got a few years when they could do sports properly before (some) men started to take it away.

andyoldlabour · 24/01/2021 12:37

NorthernIrishFeminist - "I remember having to drop the sport I was good at as a teenager because I couldn’t find a club that took girls."

Sorry to hear that, not good at all. When I was at school in the early seventies we had a mixed badminton club and the cycling club I joined was very inclusive.
The following shows the evolution of women's Olympic participation.

www.olympic.org/women-in-sport/background/key-dates

OwningAllMyMistakes · 25/01/2021 16:03

Oh look another thread bashing and demonising those that take part in sport because they are trans this is woefully sad.

MondayYogurt · 25/01/2021 16:24

Anywayyyy...

I found this very enlightening and in-depth interview with a former men's powerlifting champ, now known as Janae Marie Kroc, thoroughly interesting.

Janae has no interest in competing in the women's category.

www.muscleandfitness.com/athletes-celebrities/interviews/transgender-powerlifter-matt-kroczaleski-janae-marie-kroc-shares-unbelievable-story/

Lordamighty · 25/01/2021 17:07

@OwningAllMyMistakes

Oh look another thread bashing and demonising those that take part in sport because they are trans this is woefully sad.
Trans people are very welcome to take part in sport in the category of their biological sex. The clear advantage they have as MtF trans in the women’s categories is unfair to the female competitors. Maybe have their own competition/races.
NorthernIrishFeminist · 25/01/2021 17:24

Anyone that thinks this is a thread trying to exclude people taking part in sport has misunderstood (despite the repeated reminders) we are seeking to maintain opportunities for women to take part on sport and setting boundaries whereby male participants continue to participate in the appropriate sex class rather then in the female sex class where their physiological differences provide an unfair advantage over women. Where in some circumstances their size difference could make it unsafe for female participation. And where their presence in changing rooms would impact female privacy.

andyoldlabour · 25/01/2021 19:27

"Oh look another thread bashing and demonising those that take part in sport because they are trans this is woefully sad."

Nobody is doing that. Transgender people are free to compete in sport, as long as they stay in the category which matches their biological body. For instance a transwoman is male bodied, has gone through a male puberty and their physiology/anatomy gives them many advantages over a female body.
In order to fully cater for transgender sports people, maybe we could have specific categories for them. Maybe someone could organise a "TransOlympics" to celebrate transgender people.

OwningAllMyMistakes · 25/01/2021 19:59

If it’s not a thread rehashing old rhetoric about trans people in sport it’s a new thread rehashing rhetoric about trans people in sport same shit different year.
As a poster asked or mentioned that trans people should have their own games there is the gay games that is open to all.
What’s next stopping trans people taking part in park run as they might get a better time than anyone else?
If this wasn’t another thread bashing those that take part why the thread and the photos.

pinbinpin · 25/01/2021 20:05

Has anyone done a collage of all these pictures yet? There's someone I'd like to show it to ...

aliasundercover · 25/01/2021 20:15

What’s next stopping trans people taking part in park run as they might get a better time than anyone else?
Park run is open to everyone, so why would anyone complain about transpeople taking part?
If this wasn’t another thread bashing those that take part why the thread
As has been explained to you multiple times nobody thinks transpeople should be banned from sport (or 'bashed' for taking part). What the thread is about - as I think you know - is male people unfairly taking part in female sport.

NorthernIrishFeminist · 25/01/2021 20:26

Nothing is stopping a trans person taking part in park run. If that trans person is male bodied and they achieve a better time than anyone less their name should be recorded as a male record. If they aren’t happy with that they are free to lobby for an appropriate trans category. But setting records unachievable by female bodies in female categories is very obviously unfair

NecessaryScene1 · 25/01/2021 21:10

Just asking - I read somewhere but can't find it. A medical report that says the apparent male advantage, physically, comes before puberty and as early as under 5 years old. Which sounds reasonable since male children appear to be mostly stronger, even if the growth spurt comes with puberty.

Can't help on the report, but this came up in a Save Women's Sports discussion with Linda Blade, Sharron Davies, Emma Hilton and others.

Here's the video, linked to the relevant time:

There is this belief that before puberty the male/female difference is minimal. And this is true, but not in the way most people think.

In fact the difference is smallest just before male puberty. Because women enter puberty earlier on average, girls are closer to boys around the age of 11 because the girls have undergone more development, on average.

But at younger ages, before girls get the early puberty advantage, the average male/female difference is bigger.

So lots of studies show an almost negligible difference just before puberty, increasing after puberty, but that small gap is in part an illusion, as you're comparing totally prepubescent boys to girls who have started maturing.

NorthernIrishFeminist · 25/01/2021 21:14

@NorthernIrishFeminist

Nothing is stopping a trans person taking part in park run. If that trans person is male bodied and they achieve a better time than anyone less their name should be recorded as a male record. If they aren’t happy with that they are free to lobby for an appropriate trans category. But setting records unachievable by female bodies in female categories is very obviously unfair
‘Less’ should say ‘else’