Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

A picture speaks a thousand words. Transwomen in women’s sport

341 replies

LemonGingerCakes · 23/10/2019 22:23

I've never started a thread like this before, but this is bothering me.

No comments. Just letting the pictures speak.

Spot the transwoman.

How is this fair?

A picture speaks a thousand words. Transwomen in women’s sport
OP posts:
Thread gallery
38
nolongersurprised · 26/10/2019 22:07

The sporting world is curiously biased against women only sport to the point of penalising a woman with higher than average testosterone levels

Do you mean Semenya who gas-lighted everyone with the “I’m a woman with hyperandrogenism and I don’t want to change my body and just want to run free”?

Semenya is biologically male (XY) whose high testosterone levels are normal for males and come from internal testes.

Wheat2Harvest · 26/10/2019 22:44

Another picture (with accompanying article) that speaks a thousand words:

uk.reuters.com/article/uk-weightlifting-newzealand-hubbard/weightlifter-hubbard-becomes-lightning-rod-for-criticism-of-transgender-policy-idUKKCN1UP0FG

Wheat2Harvest · 26/10/2019 22:46

I meant to add that sex chromosome testing really is the only way to go, in my view. If you have XY, you compete in men's events; if you have XX, you compete in women's events. If you have an uncommon variation on these, that would need to be decided on its merits.

JudasIsMyHomeboy · 05/11/2019 07:37

Hello again and sorry for not responding.
To anyone that responded to my comments and/or asked me to comment on a specific article; would you be interested in having a debate 1 to 1? Just to share your point of view and your arguments, I'll share mine and maybe we'll reach an understanding. I would just love to actually have a good talk with someone interested.
And to the one who wished me well with the coins after selling my soul; I'm having a blast, hope you're doing well darling!

CuriousaboutSamphire · 05/11/2019 18:15

That's not particularly likely. Judas

This is a notoiceboard. If you start a thread many will join in. Then you will feel hounded and that won't end well for anyone.

But... there are a few long standing threads here that set out the FWR stall and most GC posters agree with most of the contents, but not all, as we are peculiarly individual in our GC feminism.

But what it usually boils down to is:

  • humans cannot change sex.
  • sex is binary, don't try to play the intersex card, we will shoot you down (some of us are very well educated in physical sciences) and intersex community has aksed manytimes to be left out of this, they are no trans 'gotcha!'
  • Transwomen are the focus of posts here because it is women they discommode
  • Transmen are discussed sometimes but they don't discomoode women as much, so we woudllike to leave them to men to work out

Most of us here ARE interested, though we wish to whatever gods or other comforts we hold to that we didn't have to be.

Some here are trans widows, parents of trans kids, trans themselves. We don't have a single mind... no matter what certain Twitter accounts like to insist!

Personally - 2 years ago I was all for forebearance. Transwomen were no threat to me, it must be awful to live in a body you don't like etc etc. I have trans friends (both ways), have had for decades. But transactivism has changed all of that.

Now I am fully in the camp of transwomen are men and should take their issues to fellow men, stop expecting women to move over and sort out their problems. There are too many instances of things TRAs said would never happen that have happened.

Too many women hurt, physically and mentally.

Too many women silenced in their jobs. And for what? For asking for debate, an open discussion on the competing rights of women and trans women?

So, if you want to know what the average GC MNer thinks you have a lot of threads at your disposal. I suspectyou'll find it interseting, especially of you start woith a relatively open mind.

Begin by believing that nobody here denies the existance of trans individuals. Nor do they think trans individuals should cease to exist, be harmed, die in a grease fire etc. We just don't believe that transwomen are women. They are transwomen and should rejoice in that rather than trying to re-write biological reality!

JudasIsMyHomeboy · 06/11/2019 13:05

Thank you for your answer!

I understand, I just wanted to leave the option there, just in case.

I agree with you that humans can not change sex.
I agree that sex is binary and that intersex is not trans and they shouldn’t be mixed in that narrative.
And I understand why the focus is on transwomen as opposed to transmen, but I do not agree with some of the treatment given to them in this conversations.

I believe that transactivism needs to change, but this is because I don’t think that trans representation is very accurate in that field, I don’t think the ones that speak the most should be doing so, as I don’t think all of them are a good reference to the whole trans community.

Transwomen are not men, and their issues should not be addressed to or by them, but I also don’t think they should be dumped upon biological women.

Also, I think that transwomen should be differentiated for certain issues, but not all of them, many issues involve biological women as well as transwomen.

The hurt you talk about, honestly, is not inflicted by transwomen but by men who use this label to take advantage of women. There is many evidence of that, but, unfortunately, that tarnishes the trans community (this is the same thing that happens when any person who is not trans, identifies as such).

Lastly, I don’t think real trans people are trying to re-write biological reality, it’s more an issue of educating society on the real issue so that the nonsense that has been happening (from both sides of the argument, to be frank), goes away.

andyoldlabour · 06/11/2019 13:13

"I agree with you that humans can not change sex."
"Transwomen are not men"

Well, that seems to me to be a clear contradiction.
If a human has XY chromosomes, then they are male, if they have XY chromosomes, they are female. There is a very tiny percentage, where humans are born with an "intersex" condition.

CranberriesChoccy · 06/11/2019 14:21

@JudasIsMyHomeboy

I believe that transactivism needs to change, but this is because I don’t think that trans representation is very accurate in that field, I don’t think the ones that speak the most should be doing so, as I don’t think all of them are a good reference to the whole trans community.*

I strongly believe this needs to be said emphatically by more people in the trans community. The loud activists are only alienating non-trans people.

andyoldlabour · 06/11/2019 14:26

"if they have XY chromosomes, they are female"

Sorry, should have been XX chromosomes.

andyoldlabour · 06/11/2019 14:28

"I strongly believe this needs to be said emphatically by more people in the trans community."

Exactly, couldn't agree more, because transactivists do not want any kind of debate where people are using sound, logical arguments.

CuriousaboutSamphire · 06/11/2019 14:45

Allow me time to pick that apart and see what I think.

I do not agree with some of the treatment given to them in this conversations. What treatment? That we GC women refuse to call transwomen women? What specifically is the treatment you do not like?

I agree with you that humans can not change sex but Transwomen are not men, Ithen what are they? The only really sensible answer is that the are men with dismorphia who wish to be seen as women.

I believe that transactivism needs to change ... as I don’t think all of them are a good reference to the whole trans community something almost every GC woman here has posted over the years!

I think that transwomen should be differentiated for certain issues, but not all of them, many issues involve biological women as well as transwomen. I don't understand that. Transwomen should always be differentiated. They don't want to be seen/treated as men and they are not women. They are transwomen. Let's celebrate that fact. What issues that involve women also involve transwomen? Male violence? Take that to violent men.

The hurt you talk about, honestly, is not inflicted by transwomen but by men who use this label to take advantage of women. You transphobe you!

Have you not read and internally digested the official Stonewall definition of transwoman?

Don't go picking and choosing the good and bad trans... that there is such a divide, such a subset of men, is PRECISELY whey GC women want an open and honest debate in the first place! Don't hold it up as a beacon of honesty and truth now. Many women have had their livelihoods threatened for trying to have that conversation. It comes across as utterly disingenuus to post that here.

I don’t think real trans people are trying to re-write biological reality, again Stonewall would label you a transphobe for the the use of the word 'real' you are denyng someone's reality! And don't tell me I am wrong, many posters here have said similar things on all sorts of platforms and in real life and been demonised for it!

it’s more an issue of educating society on the real issue so that the nonsense that has been happening (from both sides of the argument, to be frank), goes away. What education is needed? Precisely what needs to be learned? If some of the nonsense you refer to is women's rights to be safe, to legally claim single sex provision for some services that WILL by their very nature exclude transwomen then we will remain at logger heads. If it includes teaching that sex can be a spectrum, that men can be women because of a feeling, we will remain at loggerheads.

To go back to your comment about transactivists doing harm, yes! There is a great slew of women here who, a year or more ago, would have marched shoulder to shoulder with transwomen to fight for equality of provision. Not for access to all women's facilities but for specific, targetted, much needed provision of all sorts of facilities and services for trans men and women across the UK.

But not today. Purely because of the violent acts and social media presence of trans activists. And I mean real physical acts of violence by real transwomen, even discounting those 'bad men pretending' you mentioned before.

InflagranteDelicto · 18/01/2021 21:16

Zombie thread, but I want to thank you all. Tonight DH disagreed that the USA would allow male born athletes to compete in women's events. Its true, a picture does indeed speak a thousand words and my husband is now shaking his head and muttering "how stupid".

3timeslucky · 19/01/2021 18:32

This is the thread that opened my eyes.

nickymanchester · 19/01/2021 19:04

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

nickymanchester · 19/01/2021 19:18

By the way, Hannah Mouncey is 6'2" and weighs 15 stone 10 lb according to the Daily Mail (1.88m and 100kg):-

EXCLUSIVE: Rugby Australia is urged to ban transgender women after new research found they are 'stronger, heavier and faster' and increase the risk of injuries by at least 20 per cent

Whatsnewpussyhat · 19/01/2021 21:11

"New research found they are stronger, heavier and faster"

Pisses me off so much when they make out this is a complete fucking surprise!
Whoever would've thought full grown adult males had physical and biological advantages over females? Hmm

alexk3 · 20/01/2021 19:03

Can’t believe you posted Mack Beggs: I thought you could always tell???

CaraDuneRedux · 20/01/2021 19:18

The point about Mack Beggs is that Mack is still competing in women's sport while doping on T in a way that would get any other female athlete a ban.

ChakaDakotaRegina · 20/01/2021 19:56

Males in women’s sports = females lose out

Certain Females being permitted testosterone treatment in women’s sports = females lose out

Female complaints being treated like high treason against the crown = females lose out

Nameitychangity · 21/01/2021 16:58

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

SarahGoode · 23/01/2021 00:20

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Apollo440 · 23/01/2021 00:41

I think it's highly likely someone prepared to identify as a woman could win a major tennis tournament. If your a lowly circuit player with earnings in the thousands why not go for a prize worth millions. Even if only to highlight the stupidity of it all you could earn a fortune on the way.

WagnersFourthSymphony · 23/01/2021 09:17

That's nice for these poor excluded girls who wouldn't have stood a chance of winning if they had to compete against boys otherwise. Speaking as a non-trans woman, I'm wondering if someone at the Graun is trying to tell us something.

www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/jan/22/transgender-athletes-joe-biden-executive-order
accompanied by the famous Hillhouse High photo, captioned: "Bloomfield High transgender athlete Terry Miller, second from left, wins the final of the 55-meter dash over transgender athlete Andraya Yearwood, far left, at a 2019 indoor track meet at Hillhouse High School in New Haven, Connecticut."

AnyOldPrion · 23/01/2021 11:50

I came here to post another picture of the same athlete. Stark image, I think.

A picture speaks a thousand words. Transwomen in women’s sport
Swipe left for the next trending thread