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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Yoga with Adriene - Redo of PMS Video

307 replies

ThePawtriarchy · 20/10/2019 06:36

I’ve just seen the message in my inbox from Yoga with Adriene saying that she’s done a redo of her really popular ‘Yoga for Cramps and PMS for Women’ video to remove the reference to ‘Hey Ladies’ etc and make it all gender neutral, to be inclusive.

I actually just feel really sad now. I feel excluded as a woman, there’s nowhere that’s safe where I don’t have to consider men first.

OP posts:
MarshaBradyo · 22/10/2019 08:42

It still is for women. The people accessing it are women not men.

Boireannachlaidir · 22/10/2019 09:13

And you can, she isn't stopping you. There's also the first video made for cramps and pms that is aimed at women, so what she has done is made an additional video. You haven't lost anything, she's made an additional one for people that would rather have that. A 3rd space.

@TequilaPilates I don't mean this to sound rude but I think you're spectacularly missing the point where people, women, are concerned about the insidious way that things for women, the very language we use is being stripped away to make way for what...?

I'm not that eloquent as I can't put my point across in a way to make people understand clearly. This isn't about a third space really or the fact we've not lost anything by the original video being there. It's that there's no need to do an additional one or stop or change or "redo" it from using words such as women when discussing PMT and cramps.

truthisarevolutionaryact · 22/10/2019 09:32

Indeed Boireannachlaidir . A good point. It's a reflection of the pressure that is put on individuals and institutions to comply with their way of thinking . Because if you fail to comply - as is demonstrated so clearly just upthread - you'll be accused of being transphobic in thought and deed. And if you don't immediately fold and agree that you are wrong, then the pressure will go on and on and on.... just like this thread Grin

CharlieParley · 22/10/2019 09:33

Right, I'll spell it out again, since you're determined to misunderstand my position TequilaPilates. I do not object to or resent Adriene producing a video about PMS and cramps where she does not use female-coded forms of address or explicitly refers to female biology.

I object to the reason she gives for doing so and her original announcement of re-doing the original video because it was apparently exclusive. It was not. It was for women. Those complaining are also women. Women who only feel excluded because they would rather not be reminded of being women.

I did not make any demands to take the second video down - I am not denying any woman in conflict with her biology access to it. That the second video is not half as good as the first is my personal judgement, (many others may disagree), but that is by the bye. It does not change the nature of or motivation for my objection to her announcement.

I want third spaces or products and services dedicated to trans people without their existence being justfied by claiming or even just implying that female biology and implicit or explicit references to female biology are transphobic or exclusive of all other women. Making female biology unspeakable when addressing the female sex class and denying female biology where this is the root cause of an issue is harmful to women.

Which is why, much as you do not understand me, I do not understand you, MarshaBradyo. Objecting to female-coded language like girls or ladies, especially in the context of a video watched by many women who happily think of themselves as such, a video furthermore that also uses other, less contentious forms of address, is much further down my list of priorities than objecting to the category word woman being declared exclusionary to any adult human females. And also much further down than objecting to explicit references to female biology and connected medical issues being erased from any material about these very topics.

You are apparently fine with female erasure in the context of female biology, but object to me not protesting words implying femininity (especially in this context, where it is acknowledged that femininity is not favoured by all women).

I don't actually criticise the use of ladies at all, because I learned it as merely a posh form of address and don't have the same reaction to it others may have. And girls I object to when this is the only word used to address adult women in an infantilising context. But that is quite likely due to my background in linguistics - context and nuance always matters in how I evaluate language use.

As I've said before, I do not prescribe or proscribe to other women what they can get exercised about, I was explaining only my own preferences and priorities. So, if you prefer the second video because it uses no female-specific words at all, then I am happy for you that there is now a video you feel comfortable with when you have PMS and cramps.

MarshaBradyo · 22/10/2019 09:39

Well no I wouldn’t watch either because they both don’t hit the mark of her other videos.

Strong centralised language that is not male. I actually care more more preserving this than I realised.

MarshaBradyo · 22/10/2019 09:45

I wouldn’t mourn the loss of ladies I would woman of course. I don’t think they’re the same thing.

MarshaBradyo · 22/10/2019 10:00

One last thing the first piece of communication I saw was the direct message not the email. I can’t go back to check but if it had been the email then perhaps that annoyance would have been more in line with how I feel when it’s trans women invading my space.

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