Yoga with Adriene - Redo of PMS Video

[ThePawtriarchy]

I’ve just seen the message in my inbox from Yoga with Adriene saying that she’s done a redo of her really popular ‘Yoga for Cramps and PMS for Women’ video to remove the reference to ‘Hey Ladies’ etc and make it all gender neutral, to be inclusive.

I actually just feel really sad now. I feel excluded as a woman, there’s nowhere that’s safe where I don’t have to consider men first.

Well this is going well.

She does yoga for gardeners, for nurses, for runners. I am none of those things, but don't find myself so offended or excluded when she addresses them as such. I've done some of the videos when I need to relax at home (the nurses one) and never felt excluded by her talking to them as such, so we arrive back at the point that it is only the word woman that is the problem.......

This. This change has come at a time when the language and protected rights for women is under attack and fast being eroded. You do not need to look far to see concrete examples of this on the same day I started this thread. So this change doesn’t live alone and while we can be told to play nicely, nobody is excluded now, that won’t protect women’s rights. There are some women cycling athletes that have been playing nicely this weekend and unfortunately it doesn’t seem to be going well for them.

It’s correct that I would not have noticed if Adriene had originally said ‘hey friends’ in her original video. But she didn’t. Perhaps this was because it is only biological women who have periods. We all know that.

But yet she was put under pressure to change that. Per above, not the gardeners video, not the writers one, not the nurses one.

But she hasn't changed the title of her video. So, as far as I recall, the video was always for PMS/cramps and it still is. I don't think it was ever "for women".

Secondly, the view on FWR has always been that there is no objection to trans men or trans women. The objection is to the removal of women's spaces and that creating 3rd spaces is the way to go.

So, in this instance Adrienne has taken nothing away. The video, where she addresses women/ladies is still there. That's there for you.

She's now made a different one that doesn't refer to sex, for everyone.

What is the problem with that? You don't want other people to have something relevant for them? Why not? What have you had taken away here?

If you go out to a public place and you go to the toilet and you find a ladies, a men's and then a gender neutral toilet are you going to complain because the word ladies has been removed from the GN door? This is just the same.

There's a video for women and then a GN for anyone who wants it. How can you object to that?

I explained why in my post above.

I agree with Tequila.

There are plenty of examples where giving transwomen access to women's sex segregated spaces may have a genuine impact upon women's safety and comfort. This isn't one of them.

This is an example of a genuine third space being created and, to absolutely no one's surprise, FWR aren't happy with that either.

Yes, ThePawtriarchy, it's the big announcement that is the problem, not remaking the video.

I find it incredibly offensive to be told that the word woman cannot be used in the context of female biological functions and associated health issues. This is not a dirty word, or an insult, or an error.

Woman is the word for adult human females. And a woman who identifies as trans remains just that - a woman. She may modify her body and appearance however she wishes as an adult, but this doesn't change her sex. And if she is fertile at any stage throughout her transition, she will continue to produce ova, not spermatozoa. And when her transition is exhausted, when there is nothing else she can cut off, excise from or attach to her body to make it resemble a male one, she will not be producing spermatozoa because she is not and will never be male. She will be an infertile female.

That's because we cannot change sex, and the word "woman" is a sex designator which is applied only to the sex class that produces large, immobile gametes and not the one producing small, mobile ones.

When we accept that the category word "woman" could ever be a word that excludes any particular group of adult human females, we have already lost the meaning of the word. And with it we lose so much more:

The ability to discuss our experiences as women, as humans born into female bodies and what this means in a male-dominated world. To assemble as women, to organise as women without men being allowed to join us so that we may freely discuss, address and fight our oppression under the patriarchy.

That's why Adriene's announcement saddens me - it is another incident, (however inadvertent) in the war on women. Somebody else called the phenomenon of female erasure "a death by a thousand cuts" on the Always thread and I think that's why it can be so difficult to get why others are angry about any given issue.

If it's not something you're not interested in anyway or if you're not bothered by such a change because it has no effect on how you're using a product or a service, it can be hard to get all that exercised about it.

I get that.

But I urge you to at least remember this, to keep a mental tally of every time an incident of female erasure occurs, even if it doesn't upset you at that particular moment. And then maybe you will notice that this is part of a wider problem.

The difference for me is that everyone needs to pee, get changed etc so, in those cases, a third space meets a need. But periods are not for everyone. They're about biology, not gender identity and only women need period related support. A year or so ago I'd have probably shrugged and thought - yeah whatever but I'm no longer comfortable about fudging.

That said, I can understand Adriene trying to find a way through it. I doubt this will be the end of the matter for her and the fact that she didn't make it clear from the start that she had left up the video for women, suggests to me that she thinks that too. But I can't blame her for trying to compromise - this is her livelihood.

I think I'm going to leave it there as I really don't think there's a lot more I can say without repeating myself. I don't even like yoga!

@CharlieParley you have explained it all a million times better than I have. Exactly what you said!

Have you unsubscribed op?

CharlieParley

Had she banned the word "woman" maybe you'd have a point but she hasn't. She has made an additional video that doesn't use sexed words. But most of her others don't either. She says "welcome friends" or "welcome everyone" and that's what she's doing here.

So is your objection to the fact that she informed people that she's made an alternative video? If she hadn't specifically said this is what I've done and why you wouldn't mind, but because she has you do mind? Even though there's style one available that uses the language that you prefer?

There are plenty of examples where giving transwomen access to women's sex segregated spaces may have a genuine impact upon women's safety and comfort. This isn't one of them.

Perfectly true. But it is saying (yet again) to women 'We are redefining who you are and what makes a woman a woman.' They are pretending that men can have periods. Because that's what it is - pretending, in order to pacify certain groups. Much as I used to agree to call my toddler dd a tiger when she was pretending to be a tiger, because otherwise she would get cross and cry.

And yes, I have watched Adriene's channel and used some of her videos for my own practice because I liked her.

In the interest of full disclosure, I have not yet decided whether I will continue to do so. She does mean well, and I expect that she will be under some pressure to conform.

I also do not believe that the right response to any given incident of female erasure is a boycott, or even just a public reproach.

LazyLinguist this is from trans men so woman who do have periods not men pretending to have them.

They are pretending that men can have periods

Who is? She's not saying that trans men have periods. She's isn't saying that trans women have periods. She's made a video entitled "Pms/cramps" and opens it by saying "hello" rather than "hello ladies".

Where in any of that is anyone saying men have periods?

Honestly, don't let the facts get in the way will you?

Yes, TequilaPilates, rather unsurprisingly (given that we are on Mumsnet, the home of the relationship and parenting boards), the reason why someone does something has an impact on the judgement we form about it.

But can you not see what the inevitable consequence of all this will be? Everyone will drop reference to sex from everything.

People are complaining that Always have removed the Venus symbol from their packaging (even though I bet most of us even knew it was on there), you're complaining about Adrienne not using the term women in a video because she used it before - the answer here is for no one to use it in the first place. If Always had never put the Venus symbol on the packet then no one would see it taken away, if Adrienne had never used "woman" in a video it wouldn't be an issue. So going forward if no one uses these words or symbols then there won't be this backlash. You've done the job for them haven't you?

No @MarshaBradyo I haven’t unsubscribed. I’m a paid member of the YWA channel and will continue to be.

I’m also not convinced this entirely comes from women identifying as men.

What an excellent post CharleyParley
Clear, to the point and representing the views of so many of us as we watch this torrent of the eradication of women and the associated hatred and contempt that goes with it.
Thank you.

Ooops CharlieParley

What makes you think that? She’s says they do not identify as women in the message.

LazyLinguist this is from trans men so woman who do have periods not men pretending to have them.

Yes I know it is. So it's women pretending to be men who have periods. But men don't have periods. That was my point.

Who is? She's not saying that trans men have periods.

What, so the reason she's removed 'ladies' from the video is not because transmen felt excluded from it because they are now men who have periods? Oh - I must have misunderstood then, sorry.

*When we accept that the category word "woman" could ever be a word that excludes any particular group of adult human females, we have already lost the meaning of the word. And with it we lose so much more:

The ability to discuss our experiences as women, as humans born into female bodies and what this means in a male-dominated world. To assemble as women, to organise as women without men being allowed to join us so that we may freely discuss, address and fight our oppression under the patriarchy.

That's why Adriene's announcement saddens me - it is another incident, (however inadvertent) in the war on women. Somebody else called the phenomenon of female erasure "a death by a thousand cuts" on the Always thread and I think that's why it can be so difficult to get why others are angry about any given issue.*

This sums it up perfectly, especially the death by a thousand cuts, that's exactly what's happening.

The other year I was completely on the other side to this, I didn't mind about not using the word woman for things, what did it matter? I went along with us all being the same, Trans Women Are Women etc, because it was exactly that. Or like a frog in boiling water, you don't even realise what's happening and that the very fact that womanhood is being erased or turned into a dirty or taboo word. Adrienne's email read as such, that it was just so wrong to say 'this one's for the girls' what world is this?

As I said, I went to an Endometriosis event, it was so refreshing to hear everyone say woman so proudly and without shame or a but such as but also men get this too. It was unashamedly about women and what we're suffering, and not one of us felt uncomfortable but we did feel empowered.

lazylinguist

No. I'm saying that in the video she doesn't say "this is for women and men who have periods" and it doesn't say that in the title.

She has made a video for PMS and cramps and doesn't specify that it's for anyone in particular.

Oh right this threw me They are pretending that men can have periods I thought you were talking about men. For clarity I stick to trans men but I can see you now you were not.