Yoga with Adriene - Redo of PMS Video

[ThePawtriarchy]

I’ve just seen the message in my inbox from Yoga with Adriene saying that she’s done a redo of her really popular ‘Yoga for Cramps and PMS for Women’ video to remove the reference to ‘Hey Ladies’ etc and make it all gender neutral, to be inclusive.

I actually just feel really sad now. I feel excluded as a woman, there’s nowhere that’s safe where I don’t have to consider men first.

I said (and I quote) "I don't mind". That's neither an about turn nor a celebration. That's merely an acknowledgement on my part that I don't object to someone else's choice even if I wouldn't make the same one. (And I am but one individual on FWR, and one who has not condemned anyone for wearing pink on FWR or IRL.)

It just feels very much like it's being argued for moving back to a more gendered world, simply in order to reject gender neutral.

So you'd now rather women referenced as girls and ladies and pink used to reinforce that it's women who are being addressed. That feels like we're moving backwards to be honest.

Charley, that was a god analysis of the videos. Especially this:

She urges those watching to accept themselves and trust their bodies. Which we are all of us recommending, of course, when we're discussing the issue. But when we do it, it's transphobic.

Absolutely.

*good.

Don't want to give you a god(dess) complex Charley

You can give Charlie a goddess complex on this thread zebrasdontwearbras . She's made some great posts.

Too true, truth

You're not navigating a social interaction though. You're pouring over the every word and movement of a stranger on the internet in order to criticise her for having a different perspective than you. It comes across as obsessive and is discomforting.

Now, that is ironic.

And thank you @CharlieParley for taking the time to compare, it was an interesting read and I agree.

No chance of me feeling like a goddess, although I'd love to reach that state of being one can achieve in yoga if one applies oneself a lot more than me.

But thank you for reading and thank you for letting me know you found my comments good.

TequilaPilates

Bodies are not gender neutral.

We are discussing a video addressing issues caused by female biology. Gender neutral language is neither helpful nor acceptable in this context.

Gender neutral also defaults to male in almost all contexts within patriarchal systems. This is not what we are striving for, it's harmful to females and that's why I reject it unless it is carefully and correctly applied.

As for girls, ladies and pink socks. I am most often surrounded by women who like to be feminine and who are comfortable being so. I am not. Adriene however strikes me as someone who is and for whom using girls, ladies and pink socks to denote female is acceptable. I have no issue with that, especially since she acknowledges that other women feel differently. If she ever said we had to be feminine or like pink, I would disagree.

Charley

Sorry, I disagree.

I think this thread shows just why MN is accused of being transphobic.

So many times on this board posters justify campaigning against transwomen being allowed to use women's toilets (or changing rooms, hospital wards etc) by saying that they have nothing against transwomen, that they want everyone to be included for who they are, they want them to be happy and so on but that it's important that women's sex segregated spaces are kept single sex. That if transgender people can't use spaces appropriate for their sex then it's on them to campaign for gender neutral 3rd spaces. That is the message on any thread on FWR discussing women's spaces.

So here we have someone who has done exactly that. They've created the 3rd space. They haven't taken away from women because that video remains. They've created a new video for a different group of people. You yourself say that the 2nd video isn't as good as the 1st, so the video for women is better. But that apparently isn't good enough. Some of you are insisting that women must have 2 videos and the transmen or gender neutral viewers can have none.

I cannot see how you think that is right?

Maybe what she should have done is rather than make a 2nd more inclusive video, simply remove the 1st one completely. Then transmen wouldn't have felt excluded because there would be nothing to have been excluded from. But everyone would have lost out then wouldn't they? She wouldn't have come in for all this though.

Is that what you want to happen? Rather than bring in a 3rd space, which apparently isn't acceptable to you?

Charley it’s not just about what Adriene likes though it’s what I want too. If I seek out spaces where people do not use ladies and girls I am not going along with something that is harmful to females.

You say it can happen but it’s carefully applied. That sounds too rare and constructed for it to happen as much as I would like it to. Feels suffocating, I’m glad I don’t have to hear it all the time lest we slip into male language.

Her other videos strike a really nice balance and sound non-male but also not female using stereotypical words. Very calming and supportive. And more whole.

MarshaBradyo

Well put. That sums up her videos so well and I agree with everything you've said.

Thanks Tequila glad you’re on this thread with Cohle and others as feel in minority!

I would say you’ve both been very persistent and vocal with your views so being in the minority doesn’t seemed to have impacted you too badly here. I expect you’ll have the last word

Ha I doubt it Paw. We’ll be leaving you each agreeing at some point.

We have been as persistent as any one else in what we say. Probably more frequently as there’s fewer of us.

I’m guessing no minds have been changed on this thread

I do find it a bit knee jerk standard mn in places

Why aren't you saying the same to the people agreeing with you paw? They've been on here a lot too.

It's threads like these that make me really question what's behind all of the other threads on FWR.

As I said, on other threads the board regulars insist that they have nothing against transgender people it's just that they are fighting for sex segregated spaces and that they would join in and support 3rd spaces.

And then you see threads like this and you think, well this is a 3rd space. Women have had nothing taken away, it completely is in addition to what women already had and yet people are arguing against it. Why?

And now I'm.starting to think that all of the other threads on this board are coming from the same place and being motivated by the same ideology.

It isn't about preserving safe spaces or single sex spaces. It's about something else.

As much as it doesn’t fit your inferred ‘they’re all raging transphobes’ narrative, I think it’s been repeated clearly and slowly on this thread ad nauseum, that we’re concerned about the erosion of the language surrounding women and female biology.

Its been said many times on FWR that different posters have different views on things and different red lines

Some posters are all the way to one side and others float around the middle

There are different views and it’s important people feel they can express them without others resorting to sarcasm otherwise it’s not a constructive place.

Yoga is not my thing and because of the spiritual aspects it will never be my thing. If it was, I wouldn’t have a problem with two videos for different audiences, but I think I may have some understanding of what may be going on here.

When I think of the actions of many transwomen TRA activists (and those who hide behind their skirts, happily enjoying the spoils), I feel as if they have come to my home with the police and battered down the door. Then proceeded to my kitchen, helped themselves to my favourite snacks, then come to me sitting in my favourite position on the sofa and pushed me off to take my place. And then look at my bewildered face and go aggressively, ‘What?’. If someone did that to you repeatedly, aggressively appropriating what’s yours as theirs, even the most mild-mannered person would start to get angry.

Women are angry! And many have started to get hard-hearted and more radical in their positions. Many have openly said that they were previously happy to share single-sex spaces, including toilets and changing rooms, with those with a GRC but they are now moving to a position of not wanting to share with any males at all. That’s partly due to the increased knowledge many women now have (widespread male genitalia, male offending pattern) but also due to feeling many transwomen give us no consideration whatsoever.

This aggressive push to stop biological women having ANYTHING of our own will have a backlash. I think it’s starting already and I think it’s the kind of thing some transwomen (like Debbie Hayton) foresaw and have been trying to head off with public statements against self-ID.

we’re concerned about the erosion of the language surrounding women and female biology.

Which hasn't happened here because a video, containing all of the female language and biology, still exists.

charlestonchaplin

But this video has got nothing to do with transwomen nor single sex spaces.

This video is in fact the embodiment of what many people want in order to avoid the erosion of single sex spaces - a 3rd space.

So, people might as well.look at this and think no point creating a 3rd space cos they'll complain about that too so we'll just make everywhere unisex. It's an own goal, can't you see that?

You argue against making places unisex and say have single sex plus a 3rd space and then when someone follows that principle you shout foul and demand that both spaces should be single sex.

Other people have a right to be represented and to have their needs met. They haven't taken yours away, they've asked for their needs to be met in addition to what is there for you.

Because of past experiences, some people respond in a knee-jerk way, while others may see this as an appropriation of something originally designed for women.

Yes, transmen are female, but the denial of biology is the source of the conflict in all cases.