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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Yoga with Adriene - Redo of PMS Video

307 replies

ThePawtriarchy · 20/10/2019 06:36

I’ve just seen the message in my inbox from Yoga with Adriene saying that she’s done a redo of her really popular ‘Yoga for Cramps and PMS for Women’ video to remove the reference to ‘Hey Ladies’ etc and make it all gender neutral, to be inclusive.

I actually just feel really sad now. I feel excluded as a woman, there’s nowhere that’s safe where I don’t have to consider men first.

OP posts:
TequilaPilates · 21/10/2019 18:19

and not one of us felt uncomfortable but we did feel empowered.

I guess just lucky that there weren't any trans men there then who might have felt uncomfortable?

ThePawtriarchy · 21/10/2019 18:59

If you’re a woman with endometriosis, at an event for endometriosis, but identify as a man; then I’m pretty sure it’s not the attending women, using the word woman to describe a biological condition only impacting women, that is causing the discomfort.

OP posts:
Cohle · 21/10/2019 19:26

But it is saying (yet again) to women 'What, so the reason she's removed 'ladies' from the video is not because transmen felt excluded from it because they are now men who have periods? Oh - I must have misunderstood then, sorry.

Yes. Maybe a transman is still experiencing periods and would prefer to seek support from a more gender neutral resource. Maybe an individual who has periods identifies as non-binary etc.

There are plenty of ways in which having a gender neutral resource supports those FWR would be happy to call "women" too.

And of course the original video is available for those who are upset by more gender neutral language....

QuaterMiss · 21/10/2019 21:00

For anyone who didn’t see Adriene’s original email - my copied and pasted extract has been restored near the beginning of this thread.

(Thank you MNHQ.)

lazylinguist · 21/10/2019 21:07

No. I'm saying that in the video she doesn't say "this is for women and men who have periods" and it doesn't say that in the title. She has made a video for PMS and cramps and doesn't specify that it's for anyone in particular.

She has made a video for pms and cramps aimed at women, and then has announced that she's changed the greeting to be more inclusive. In other words to include people who have cramps who are not women. In the grand scheme of TRAs trampling over women's rights, it's not a biggie, I admit. It's just one more little thing in a big onslaught.

ThePawtriarchy · 21/10/2019 21:09

It's just one more little thing in a big onslaught.

Yep, the straw that broke the biologically female, PMS suffering, completely pissed off, donkey’s back.

OP posts:
MarshaBradyo · 21/10/2019 21:11

Lazy again that’s not who messaged her. Did you see her direct message earlier?

MarshaBradyo · 21/10/2019 21:13

I think people assume it’s men doing this as that is what they’re used to fighting against but it’s not the case here.

Boireannachlaidir · 21/10/2019 21:14

She has made a video for PMS and cramps and doesn't specify that it's for anyone in particular.

And there's the problem right there. We're women. We get PMS & cramps. We should be able to say that.

This malaise is insidious, eroding women and any mention of women and for why?

Boireannachlaidir · 21/10/2019 21:15

Bold fail. That's what I was commenting on.

She has made a video for PMS and cramps and doesn't specify that it's for anyone in particular.

TequilaPilates · 21/10/2019 21:32

In other words to include people who have cramps who are not women.

Well you'd be wrong then. It's to include non binary and transmen (who were born female).

TequilaPilates · 21/10/2019 21:35

And there's the problem right there. We're women. We get PMS & cramps. We should be able to say that

And you can, she isn't stopping you. There's also the first video made for cramps and pms that is aimed at women, so what she has done is made an additional video. You haven't lost anything, she's made an additional one for people that would rather have that. A 3rd space.

QuaterMiss · 21/10/2019 21:42

I can’t know but I feel pretty sure she had no intention of keeping the first video in circulation until she began getting disgruntled messages about it.

‘Re-do’ means getting rid of what was there before ...

If only she had simply said the original now sounded a bit twee to her more mature ears so she was updating it.

TequilaPilates · 21/10/2019 21:47

Well, did she take the 1st down before releasing the 2nd? If she didn't then I think we can assume that she did intend to leave them both up rather than accusing someone of something we have no proof of, heh?

lazylinguist · 21/10/2019 22:16

Well you'd be wrong then. It's to include non binary and transmen (who were born female).

Yes I know. But we are supposed to agree that transmen are men, no? Like transwomen are women? If transmen admitted they were actually women, why on earth would they be wanting to have female symbols or greetings taken off products and videos?

So essentially, a transman says "I don't want this product/video to say it's for women, because I am now a man and I have periods. Therefore men have periods, not only women.' That's what I have a problem with - because only biological women have periods.

CharlieParley · 21/10/2019 23:10

Well, I have now watched the first video again and then the new video and must say if I'd only seen the second video to begin with, I'd never have liked Adriene as much as I did.

What is so great in all of her targeted videos is, that you feel she knows what you're going through. However she does her research, she guides you in a way that makes me feel that she knows from experience (which I'm sure can't be true considering all of the issues she addresses.)

The original video not only gives me a sense of sisterhood, it is comfortable, peaceful and understanding. Forgiving and relaxing at the same time.

For the sheer fun of it, I analysed her language. She uses:

Yoga for Women three times, in the title, the title sequence and the description. (She also wrote a little post to go with the video, all about women, of course. But back to the video). There is

ladies 5 times
girls and feminine twice
girl, femininity, as women, woman and reproductive organs once each

She is playful:

as in building yourself a feminine love tent (honestly, it makes sense in context)

and creates a sense of familiarity from shared experience. I don't even mind the ladies and girls and the pink socks, because this is clearly her - warm and loving. She talks about us and we.

But she is also very sensitive to the fact that all women are different (explicitly in the post accompanying the video on her website, and indirectly in the video), by saying for instance

"this is a chance to connect to your feminine side if that appeals to you" [my emphasis].

The new video in contrast feels stilted. She keeps using the word frontbody which throws me out of the sequence (but maybe I just haven't noticed it in her other videos?), and there is an awkward sequence in the last quarter that urges the watcher to relax like this

"- and even if you don't feel supported, actually, in this moment, maybe you feel a little...umm...crazy...or, you know, whatever's going on, be...choose to be open to that idea of being supported in this moment. By your yoga mat, by your practice, by me, by Benjii, by all of the people who are practicing this with you, actually, all around the world" (she essentially stops here completely, her body language is neither one of confidence nor comfort)

And then guiding us further through the relaxation sequence, she urges us to consciously connect with our body, to work with it, which culminates in this speech:

"-blanket yourself in this...just beautiful loving awareness or it could just be the idea of loving awareness, this acceptance and love for oneself in all circumstances, even times in which we feel cramped or in pain"

Further urging us "trust your body, learn to trust your struggle" (whatever the latter means) near the very end.

She isn't relaxed doing this video, but extremely careful not to mention female biology at all (apart from unspecified cramps and pain). She doesn't just shy s
away from any reference to anything that could at all be construed as refering to women, she also doesn't use a single playful or friendly expression or address (which she does in all the other video's of hers that I've seen - not that I've seen them all). And she is solely focused on feelings, unlike in the original video where she specifically references physical discomfort and how to ease it.

Watching this I get the impression that Adriene is not only upset that her original video has made some women feel excluded, but she seems deeply upset by their struggles. However (and we come full circle here, all the way back to our earlier argument), she doesn't seem to fully understand the issue. She urges those watching to accept themselves and trust their bodies. Which we are all of us recommending, of course, when we're discussing the issue. But when we do it, it's transphobic.

I feel shortchanged watching the second video. Adriene is, of course, much more focused on the struggles of gender dysphoric women for whom menstruation can be a distressing reminder that they are female when they don't want to be. But in my view it isn't a good video for the rest of us. And, I fear, it may not really satisfy that tiny number of dysphoric women. As I've been told more than once, the last thing they want to hear is to accept their bodies.

TequilaPilates · 21/10/2019 23:15

So what you're saying is that the first video, made for women,is better than the 2nd video?

But somehow you still feel that you've had something taken away from you by the 2nd video, even though you don't think it's very good?

Cohle · 21/10/2019 23:15

I think you're projecting a lot of your own emotions into a bizarrely detailed analysis of a stranger's body language and word choice.

RuffleCrow · 21/10/2019 23:24

For those of us who've had (or did have, past tense in my case) Adriene as our virtual yogi for years now, the words she chooses really do matter. She really is, or seemed like, one of life's good people and i think lots of us have placed a great deal of trust in her guidance up until now. Which makes it all the more sad that she's chosen to perpeutate lies now. Sad

truthisarevolutionaryact · 21/10/2019 23:28

That's such an interesting analysis CharlieParley. There's so much hesitation / discomfort / uncertainty at the moment where women are trying to articulate their thoughts but are fearful of (verbal) attack. There's a lot of it around at the moment - people insisting that women have no right to expect accurate language, imagery and discussion in relation to our biology. So tedious.
But you have motivated me to find her Yoga for Women and give it a go. Thank you.

truthisarevolutionaryact · 21/10/2019 23:31

There have been some lovely and insightful posts on this thread about yoga - some of you really know about it and it's been very motivating. So thank you for sharing and I'm sorry that Adriene is another woman to be the target of the bullies. But hopefully, if her original videos are still available women can use them.

CharlieParley · 21/10/2019 23:31

TequilaPilates several of us, myself included, have already explained that it is the reason why the second video was announced as a redo of the first that we object to (to scrub all reference to females from a video about issues rooted in female biology).

cohle thanks for reading. We all of us interpret the words and movements of strangers all of the time in this world populated by strangers. Building up some skills in doing so can be very helpful in navigating social interactions.

And I write reviews, bizarrely detailed ones, especially when I compare two products or services. It's a job hazard, I suppose. Feel free to skip them, I don't mind.

Cohle · 21/10/2019 23:40

Building up some skills in doing so can be very helpful in navigating social interactions.

You're not navigating a social interaction though. You're pouring over the every word and movement of a stranger on the internet in order to criticise her for having a different perspective than you. It comes across as obsessive and is discomforting.

MarshaBradyo · 21/10/2019 23:42

She does have the knack of delivering a what feels like a personal yoga session to so many. Doing the sessions after a day with a toddler and not being able to do old style exercise easily, being a soothing part of the day is such a boon. I really like her still, just as I did yesterday.

I haven’t seen these videos but actually some of the language listed below is too twee for me - ladies and girls, used anywhere even on here, sets me on edge for a start.

Obviously everyone reacts differently.

TequilaPilates · 21/10/2019 23:47

CharlieParley

Yes you have. And in one of the biggest about faces ever we now see a poster on FWR celebrating the wearing of pink whilst addressing women as girls!!! On any other thread on here that would have had people up in arms but nope, here it's a thing to be celebrated.

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