Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

MNHQ make a statement on Twitter re FWR

524 replies

GirlDownUnder · 12/10/2019 04:04

mobile.twitter.com/MumsnetTowers/status/1182615292813467648

Mumsnet will always stand in solidarity with minority communities. We don’t tolerate transphobic comments and will delete any when they are flagged to us. But we do also believe strongly in free speech. 1/3

The discussion of gender self-id and what that might mean for very hard-won women’s rights, as well as the rapidly growing number of children exploring gender identity issues, is contentious. 2/3

We know some people would like us to simply censor this entire debate but a similar number think we censor too much. We’re committed to allowing respectful discussion of an issue that is of particular interest to parents. 3/3

The usual suspects pile on, but I think the ratios look very good.

MNHQ Gin Flowers

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
Mner2019 · 14/10/2019 21:18

MNHQ you are fab. Thank you!

Smotheroffive · 14/10/2019 22:50

Its not just #Flora,

Its...Bertolli, ProActiv, Elmlea, Stork and I Can't Believe It's So Good (copied from upfield.com)

I am going to buy butter.

TRAs have form for trying to blackmail suppliers who advertise with MN, they've already been there and done that so they have form for this.

The suppliers loyal to MN phoned MN and told them (and still advertised with MN anyway) Grin

Campervan69 · 14/10/2019 22:57

Well I have to say that the mainstream media coverage so the Daily Mail the Telegraph and so on has been a complete disaster for Flora.

Looks to me like public opinion is overwhelmingly in support of mums being allowed to discuss matters that concern them on a public forum

Robbabank · 15/10/2019 01:35

Well done MN. Fantastic statements. As another poster has said, MN was the oracle in early parenthood but has been of even more crucial help of late with the intelligent analysis of FWR members. Welcome to those MNers who have returned and those who’ve visited to see for themselves whether women debating the issues particular to their sex are so terribly, terribly uppity and BAD.
Supporters can generate traffic to MN advertisers and support MN by unblocking adverts on MN and clicking through (even if you don’t intend to buy a car/house/hairdryer right now).

2BthatUnnoticed · 15/10/2019 01:44

Great work MN, thank you Flowers

teawamutu · 15/10/2019 07:02

Elmlea? Hadn't realised. Don't know whether to go 'ah shite, I bought and used some at the weekend' or 'brilliant! I can join the boycott' Grin

ChilledBee · 15/10/2019 07:10

Why would the word cis be banned? Is this like my homophobic CIL who doesn't want to be called heterosexual as he thinks it's a word made up by the gays when the name for people like him should be "normal"?

Dyrne · 15/10/2019 07:16

ChilledBee it’s not the word Cis which is banned, it’s the context in which it is used.

“Cis” is often used as a slur.

I am not a “cis” woman. I am a woman. No qualifier needed, especially when that qualifier is often used to insult or dismiss me.

I do not “identify” as a “Cis woman”; I know I AM a woman. No more ridiculous than asking someone to respect my pronouns, surely? Or does it only work one way?

ChilledBee · 15/10/2019 07:22

Yeah he says the same thing about heterosexual. It's ridiculous. Cis is basically the opposite to trans like heterosexual is the opposite of homosexual.

This argument sounds like stuff my 3 year old son's say. Except some of the words will be unintelligible.

Oh and hubby's cousin who says that stuff about not being heterosexual because he's "normal"? He's a crackhead and loves that crazy drug Spice too.

Arguments with crackheads and 3 year olds are not on my menu.

Anyone who wishes to remain with the gender presentation they were born with is cis. Anyone who wants to change that, isn't.

Unfollowed thread Grin

zebrasdontwearbras · 15/10/2019 07:28

There are numerous threads on Mumsnet about why so many women are offended by being called "cis".

It is assuming women identify with gender stereotypes that many consider damaging, and have led to their oppression over centuries - otherwise - what? - they aren't women??

DancelikeEmmaGoldman · 15/10/2019 07:29

Why would the word cis be banned?

I’ll bite because it will keep my hand out of the chip packet.

“Cis” suggests two things in this brave, new world of Humpty Dumpty language.

The first is that biological women are a subset of their own class. It puts the terms “trans” and “cis” as subsets of “woman”; creating the peculiar nonsense idea that the class “woman” contains men. At that point the word woman is rendered meaningless and the idea of woman, as a category, disappears. And once the category of woman disappears as a material reality, the biological basis of our oppression disappears also. If we can’t name ourselves, we can’t liberate ourselves.

The other is the idea that being a ciswoman is some kind of mythical state, where the reality of being born in a woman’s body is in accord with female socialisation. Somehow, this implies, ciswomen are those who never struggle to be allowed the freedom of full humanity, but carry the yoke of femininity without question.

A ciswoman, in this narrative, has no interest in mechanics or power tools, but expresses her deep love for her state through long hair, nail polish and an expert eye for separating colours in the wash.

My material reality is that I am a vertebrate, a mammal, a human and an adult, human female. A woman.

Dyrne · 15/10/2019 07:29

Wow, so stunning and brave, drop your argument and then run away because you can’t handle any counterpoint.

Kind of reflects the whole trans discussion really...

Go read some more about the #diecisscum hashtag/tattoos; and comments such as “you can’t spell facist without Cis” and then tell me it’s ridiculous to think Cis is used as a Slur.

Michaelbaubles · 15/10/2019 07:30

I think it’s very fitting this is about margarine.

Something invented as a substitute for butter, that can never be butter, never tastes likes butter and can’t do the same things as butter, but has been pushed relentlessly as just as good as - no, better than - butter for years. Except now people are realising it isn’t the same, and that you can’t really beat the natural, unadulterated product that is butter.

I can’t believe it’s not butter? No, I can’t believe anyone ever thought it was butter. You can’t make margarine into butter just by telling people it’s the same.

BoneAppleTeaa · 15/10/2019 07:30

Thank you @MNHQ

I have re-registered a few times now, mostly to come back and lurk here on FWR. I would never have known about “all this stuff” if it wasn’t for this place.

I started a thread called “break it down for me” which really helped me to understand what was going on, it might still be good for people new to the issue.

Findumdum1 · 15/10/2019 07:48

Anyone who calls their husband "hubby" is never going to understand why many women find the term cis offensive. Sad.

WeBuiltCisCityOnSexistRoles · 15/10/2019 07:51

"Anyone who wishes to remain with the gender presentation they were born with is cis"

Please can you explain exactly what you mean by "gender presentation"? I'm genuinely interested in how you are defining this (not being sarcastic, would like to hear your response"

To me "gender presentation" means (as you can tell from my name) sexist stereotypes. It angers and saddens to me to hear "my son plays with ballet skirts and dolls so he believes he is a girl" in 2019. Surely a better starting point would be abolishing stereotypes like this? I'm all for people not confirming to these!

Aside from that point, as PP said, women doesn't need qualifying, it is what it is. Biology, not stereotypes is what makes us a woman. I don't need qualifying thank you, I believe in biological realities.

Clearly you know you can't actually justify this position which is why you're disappearing - which makes you look very foolish, tbh. Have the courage of your convictions! Don't you think people would have more respect for your viewpoint if you came back and engaged and responded to these points?

Michelleoftheresistance · 15/10/2019 07:53

More or the same I see:

Hugely important to care about and respect trans people's language and feelings and personal choices of identity.... how awful that you don't!

Women however should just shut up and do as they're told. Their choices of language and their feelings and their personal choice of identity = stupid and wrong and to be shamed and ignored, not even listened to, never mind respected.

Where's any kind of logic to get a grip on? Why that enormous double standard? Confused

AthelstaneTheUnready · 15/10/2019 08:24

Thank you @MNHQ Flowers

Relationships board opened my eyes to my situation, and FWR opened my eyes to the context that allowed it to happen. Flowers to them all.

2BthatUnnoticed · 15/10/2019 08:25

I don’t have a gender identity, therefore cannot be c*s. Conversely I do have a sexuality, so the comparison is bollocks.

Hope that helps.

Now ignoring the plopper.

Dyrne · 15/10/2019 08:43

I’ve just got dressed this morning including trainers, trousers and made zero effort with my hair. No makeup either.

Apparently I am now officially less of a ‘Cis woman’ and am now presenting as a ‘trans man’. What a lovely progressive world we live in.

Ereshkigal · 15/10/2019 08:51

Anyone who wishes to remain with the gender presentation they were born with is cis. Anyone who wants to change that, isn't.

I wasn't born with a "gender presentation". I'm simply a member of the female sex. I guess I must be agender in that case. So under the trans umbrella according to you. Ok then.

Datun · 15/10/2019 08:57

ChilledBee

Cis is basically the opposite to trans like heterosexual is the opposite of homosexual.

Yeah, I'm not sure you've got the TRA head office memo. Unless you are absolutely saying that a transwoman is the complete opposite to a woman.

Ironic, isn't it, considering you follow it up with

Except some of the words will be unintelligible.

Oh and hubby's cousin who says that stuff about not being heterosexual because he's "normal"? He's a crackhead and loves that crazy drug Spice too.

Sounds delightful.

KatvonHostileExtremist · 15/10/2019 09:44

I don’t have a gender identity, therefore cannot be cs. Conversely I do have a sexuality, so the comparison is bollocks.*

This, plus, gender dysphoria is still listed as an illness by the world health organisation. Apparently not mental now, but still there. Is there any other illness where there's a special name for the people without the illness?

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 15/10/2019 10:01

How the fuck can anyone be born with a gender presentation? Babies are born naked with any hair they may have plastered to their skull with blood and goo.

Swipe left for the next trending thread