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Original poster

Famous men and surrogacy

660 replies

Annasgirl · 04/10/2019 10:43

OK, so this is not to bash the specific person involved but last night I was heading to bed and a story came up on my phone - a person from Westlife was announcing the birth of their baby - through surrogacy (he is gay) and showed a pic of him, his boyfriend and the baby - there was no mother.

So, I totally lost it and poor DH had to listen to me rant for about an hour - but when, oh God, when, are we going to stand up and be counted and take back the rights of women and children?????

DH mentioned that there will always be women poor enough to agree to do this and I countered that you cannot sell a kidney (legally) or buy one so why should you be able to buy or sell a baby???????

BTW, DH agrees with me, but why do I feel I am the only person alive who is angry about this?

And I live in Wokesville (AKA Ireland) and I am worried that we are so keen to be woke and the most liberal place to be gay in the world, that we will soon legalise surrogacy or at least make it easy for people to legally buy a baby overseas and then take it home here. That is what the person was arguing for on his gushing post.

OP posts:
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AnotherEagles · 08/10/2019 19:59

Most people aren’t thinking of the law, they’re slagging people off when they nothing of the whole story. They’re thinking of their personal view.

No one is selling or buying a baby. That is not how it works. I know from experience. I am a surrogate and bloody proud of it. Yes, the law needs to change but it needs to change for both sides. I do not want to register a birth or be on a birth certificate for a child that isn’t mine. I also do not want to end up with a child when the intended parent changes their mind for one reason or another. The intended parents also don’t want to be in a situation where their baby (especially when it’s their egg and sperm) is kept by the surrogate. And yes, that happens. That child is then raised by someone who isn’t even related to them in any way.

If people stopped thinking of themselves and other people then the world would be a nicer place. You cannot decide who should or shouldn’t have children and how they go about it. That’s not your choice. It’s theirs. It’s an agreement between consenting adults who all know the risks but what to do it anyway. If it’s not for you, then walk away. No one is asking you to be involved. Stand up for those who need it, not for those who don’t. Use your voice and energy for something powerful and helpful, not trolling people for bringing a much wanted and loved baby into the world and criticising those who want to help.

OhHolyJesus · 08/10/2019 20:02

I suggest you read back a bit another and read over the to and fro with Surrogacy - we're going over old ground here and it could be you who might learn something.

And the thing about discussions boards or discussion usually involves sharing opinions and sometimes we even go so far as to share facts and information, so many here are interested in other people's opinions and in facts asked for exactly that.

Are you new here? Just explaining how it works in case you're confused. You also sound angry, some might say hateful...

OhHolyJesus · 08/10/2019 20:05

Is no one asking us to be involved? Was that why the Law Commission spent all that time and money designing a public consultation so they didn't want to know what we thought?

Judging from the complex and badly written questions, you could be right about that Another , God I wish I hadn't spent a week filling it in, what a waste of my time, I could have spent that time learning and defending women's rights instead.

IcedPurple · 08/10/2019 20:06

I am NOT the mother.

Every child has a mother. No exceptions. If you are not that child's mother - despite gestating and birthing it - then who is? Whose name will go on the birth cert?

OhHolyJesus · 08/10/2019 20:06

Out of interest @AnotherEagles how much did you get paid in expenses and was the baby born using your egg or did another woman provide that?

LangCleg · 08/10/2019 20:07

It’s an agreement between consenting adults who all know the risks but what to do it anyway.

And there it is, in all its Thatcherite glory and proud of it to boot.

There's a baby involved. A baby is not a contract.

IcedPurple · 08/10/2019 20:07

It is MY choice,

Well, bully for you but thing is, it's not all about you and your 'choices'.

Should people be allowed to legally sell their kidneys or inject heroin because they 'choose' to?

OhHolyJesus · 08/10/2019 20:08

If people stopped thinking of themselves and other people then the world would be a nicer place.

Well wouldn't it just, that's hilarious, if only all these intended parents could just think of the baby for once, wouldn't the world be a nicer place?

ChattyLion · 08/10/2019 20:10

So lovely that people are joining MN just to post on this thread. Grin

IcedPurple · 08/10/2019 20:12

@ChattyLion

Is it possible to access someone's posting history?

IcedPurple · 08/10/2019 20:13

I do not want to register a birth or be on a birth certificate for a child that isn’t mine. I also do not want to end up with a child when the intended parent changes their mind for one reason or another. The intended parents also don’t want to be in a situation where their baby (especially when it’s their egg and sperm) is kept by the surrogate

There's a very easy solution to all of those problems.

Outlaw surrogacy in all forms.

pallisers · 08/10/2019 20:17

Love, guidance & nurturing makes a mother.

Presumably the same is true of a father. Why then was it so important to "the boys" that they had a biological connection to their child so adoption wasn't considered?

IcedPurple · 08/10/2019 20:20

An excellent question @pallisers.

When it comes to the mother (sorry, 'surromum') we're told that the very biological acts of gestating and birthing a child are irrelevant. However, at the same time, the attraction of surrogacy for the 'intended parents' is the fact that the baby is their 'own', ie has a biological link to at least one of them. Massive contradiction.

NotTonightJosepheen · 08/10/2019 20:29

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TruthOnTrial · 08/10/2019 20:33

You’re using this as an excuse to spout rubbish

There ends any credibility, as noone has actually spouted any rubbish only actual harm.caused to babies.

Also, as already stated, the carrier of a baby IS the mother.

Actually, some rubbish is being spouted! 😂😂😂😂

TruthOnTrial · 08/10/2019 20:34

No mention of harms to baby, very real acknowledged harms.

What do you feel about that?

Documented and recognised caused by treating babies like commodities to buy and sell, or give away.

TruthOnTrial · 08/10/2019 20:40

Sorry, but spouting more rubbish here....

same as a father

No, cos biology. Fathers don't grow babies!

Talk about ignore some of the fundamental differences between the sexes, and the impact on infants!

Disgraceful.

All very convenient isn't it to call actual syndromes in babies spouting rubbish

Its shocking that anyone claiming to do this can be so ignorant of hurting babies.

AnotherEagles · 08/10/2019 20:46

so you’re turning a story and subsequent post about two men in Ireland having a baby into an argument about surrogacy in India. 🤣 trolling and stupidity at its best. Why not head to India and fix it there, where it is needed. Not going on about surrogacy in this country behind a computer.

IcedPurple · 08/10/2019 20:53

two men in Ireland having a baby

Except they didn't have a baby did they?

Men cannot have babies.

A woman - othewise known as a mother - had that baby. But she has been erased from the picture, and from that tiny newborn's life. That is the real story here, not you and your 'choices'.

BarbaraStrozzi · 08/10/2019 21:04

Since I doubt another can be arsed to read the thread, I'm going to repeat what I said earlier:

When in fact what we're actually talking about here are changes in the law.

We don't frame possible changes to laws around assisted suicide, for example, round clear cut case scenarios only. (Lovely granddad dying of incurable, rapidly advancing degenerative disease, wants to go out at time of his choosing before suffering becomes too much, surrounded by loved ones). We take all possible cases into consideration (Neglected granddad who happens to live in house in home counties worth 3/4 of a million, suffering from slowly progressing chronic condition which can be managed with decent nursing, who is under pressure from offspring who don't want to see the proceeds from that 3/4 million house spent on nursing).

Likewise with surrogacy. A happy auntie prepared to step in for her dearly loved brother and his partner is not the only woman, nor is the child she's carrying (or "cooking in her oven" according to taste and tweeness threshold) the only scenario the law has to cover. It has to cover the woman in poverty who might be taken advantage of. It has to cover the rights and needs of the existing children where a surrogate dies, unpredictably and suddenly, from a placental abruption. It has to cover the child who is unwanted by the commissioning couple because the child is born with complex health needs.

We don't frame legislation round Mary Poppins best case scenarios, we frame it round the whole range of possible scenarios to make sure everyone in society receives protection.

We should not allow the process of framing new laws to be hijacked by wealthy, powerful interest groups (in this case, comfortably off people with multiple thousands of pounds to throw at surrogacy) with no concern for the impact on all potential host mothers (not just the happy altruistically minded ones) or all potential children (the ones with complex health needs, the ones who grow up and say "you know what, I would have liked to know about my host mother", as well as the happy ones).

Also, I strongly suggest you read this case carefully:
www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWFC/HCJ/2016/34.html

Surrogates aren't all articulate, educated women like yourself. This case concerns "commissioning parents" who were utter bastards in the way they sought to take advantage of a surrogate with learning difficulties. Fortunately for the surrogate and the child, our law as it is currently set up protected her and the child's best interests. I am opposed to any attempts to water down this law and give more rights to the "commissioning parents" at the expense of the well-being of children, and the safety and well-being of women.

OhHolyJesus · 08/10/2019 21:17

Why not head to India and fix it there, where it is needed.

Job done Another posted upthread...
*
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/12/20/india-bans-commercial-surrogacy-stop-rent-womb-exploitation/*

ShesDressedInBlackAgain · 08/10/2019 22:23

Sury the precedent should be- as in family law - that the best interests of the child are paramount?

And given that family law also holds that generally it is in a child's best interest to be raised by its birth family (where adoption can only take place after all possible options with a birth family have been exhausted) how can any surrogacy meet that standard?

OhHolyJesus · 08/10/2019 22:38

You're right it doesn't SheDressed the family lawyers involved would be set to bill for some expensive hours if surrogacy is made easier though, made a more accessible way of "building a family".

They get more than their expenses paid so imagine my shock when I saw that a good handful of family law firms met with the Law Commission before releasing the consultation, there was even one from America (why?).

TruthOnTrial · 08/10/2019 22:50

so you’re turning a story and subsequent post about two men in Ireland having a baby into an argument about surrogacy in India. 🤣 trolling and stupidity at its best. Why not head to India and fix it there, where it is needed. Not going on about surrogacy in this country behind a computer

Couldn't see any reality or constructive points in this so pfft. This makes you cry laughing somehow. Well that shows how seriously you take child welfare.