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Original poster

Famous men and surrogacy

660 replies

Annasgirl · 04/10/2019 10:43

OK, so this is not to bash the specific person involved but last night I was heading to bed and a story came up on my phone - a person from Westlife was announcing the birth of their baby - through surrogacy (he is gay) and showed a pic of him, his boyfriend and the baby - there was no mother.

So, I totally lost it and poor DH had to listen to me rant for about an hour - but when, oh God, when, are we going to stand up and be counted and take back the rights of women and children?????

DH mentioned that there will always be women poor enough to agree to do this and I countered that you cannot sell a kidney (legally) or buy one so why should you be able to buy or sell a baby???????

BTW, DH agrees with me, but why do I feel I am the only person alive who is angry about this?

And I live in Wokesville (AKA Ireland) and I am worried that we are so keen to be woke and the most liberal place to be gay in the world, that we will soon legalise surrogacy or at least make it easy for people to legally buy a baby overseas and then take it home here. That is what the person was arguing for on his gushing post.

OP posts:
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MrsTerryPratchett · 04/10/2019 16:58

Very little, or at a minimum.

Hmm

The only mother I know who didn't talk to her child was very neglectful because of trauma. Also no ideal.

timshelthechoice · 04/10/2019 16:59

Oh, I grew up in a rough council estate where there wasn't a lot of '4th trimester' going on, not trauma or neglect, either, but not a lot of attachment parenting, either.

OnlyFoolsnMothers · 04/10/2019 17:01

Plenty of women who give birth don't do this, they don't want to and it's a valid choice for them

same ridiculous argument as when people say a trans-man isn't a woman because they cant bear a child and someone pipes up "so women who've had hysterectomies arent women"....seriously?!!!

Yes there are women that cant do skin to skin, who cant breastfeed- that is not the same as a man choosing to take this option away from the baby for his own selfish benefit.

NotTonightJosepheen · 04/10/2019 17:03

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

OhHolyJesus · 04/10/2019 17:04

The question of truly altruistic surrogacy is a good one - I don't think we hear much about the things that can go wrong with egg donors or surrogate mothers who have difficult or risky pregnancies. How could a friendship survive secondary infertility or a birth injury so bad it caused daily pain?

One mother in America died recently and the twins she was carrying for a Spanish couple died too. This was a case of commercial surrogacy and the fact that her husband (and her three sons she left behind) cannot afford her funeral is very telling of their personal financial circumstance that probably brought them to surrogacy in the first place.

I'm thinking about the mother looking at that picture. I hope she is ok.

(The surrogacy consultation from the Law Commission closes on the 11th Oct. )

SarahTancredi · 04/10/2019 17:08

I dont know bow I feel about this really.

Obviously I think that gay and lesbian couples make good bad and mediocre parents just like everyone else. If a baby has a happy loving family that's all that matters and you dont have to be straight or married to provide that.

But using women like this doesnt sit right.

I guess I just remember an episode of Chicago med where there was a contract that protected everyone except the mother and the baby. The mother was willing to risk her own life to carry the baby to term or she wouldnt get paid.

This kind if situation is dangerous. What happens of the baby is premature and/or born disabled/brain damaged?. Do the adoptive parents get to just walk away? What happens to the baby that no one wants?

I think.adoptuok or fostering would he better. The baby/child is already here and needs a loving home.

Its gotta be better to do that than rent a womb? It's not exactly going to privileged women agreeing to this is it? It will be poor women desperate to feed their own families.

VictoriaSpongeAndTea · 04/10/2019 17:13

Having a baby isn't a privilege not a right. surrogacy isn't the answer for gay men to become parents, it's only the answer for rich gay men so it's not exactly a universal solution.

That picture disturbed me, the triumphant arms raised, the baby is a trophy, a possession.

I still cannot understand how in a country where slavery is not allowed after past scandals selling babies it is still possible, celebrated even to buy and sell a human being

Hoppinggreen · 04/10/2019 17:19

I felt very uncomfortable at that photo, but I think I would have felt the same if it hadn’t been 2 men.
I object to anyone renting a woman’s womb and buying a baby, whoever they are, however it does tend to be more wealthy people using a poorer surrogate.

yulet · 04/10/2019 17:23

Surrogacy is purposefully creating an orphan, as opposed to rescuing one.

Given how much we know about attachment disorders now (and how much we don't), surely no ethical society should allow this.

yulet · 04/10/2019 17:28

And just for the context of this discussion, I'm infertile and went through multiple miscarriages. No one has the right to be handed a newborn baby.

ShadowOnTheSun · 04/10/2019 17:40

Oh, so 'two evil men using a poor woman as a womb'? Or rather a woman renting her womb out and selling her baby. Presumably, they didn't just catch an innocent bystander and forced her to carry the baby and then stole it away from her. Nope, she sold it: took a handsome sum in exchange for a baby. Just how all of a sudden she's innocent in all this and the men are heartless? If anything, they're just bad as each other, but she's worse. That was her baby and she sold it.

And no need for the 'poor woman did it, so she wouldn't starve'. If you're starving - go work at McD, take up a cleaning job or similar. Plenty of women do this. They don't go about selling babies.

OnlyFoolsnMothers · 04/10/2019 17:44

Well it’s quite probable the woman didn’t comprehend the bond she’d feel for the baby until she gave birth.

Ultimately it’s the baby I feel sorry for- and it’s the men in this story raising a fist to the news they have a baby that disgust me

Original poster
Annasgirl · 04/10/2019 17:57

I acknowledge what the woman did was wrong, but she signed a contract and could probably be sued.

It should just be illegal all over the world, in all circumstances, as we noted, no one has the right to a child.

And as for "the poor gay men - jeez, isn't biology a croc - but that's life. Suck it up.

I don't go on facebook so cannot see the page but you would probably be taking your life into your hands to disagree with the wokeratie in Ireland.

OP posts:
Hoppinggreen · 04/10/2019 18:03

I don’t think they are evil, I think they are spoilt and entitled - they have enough money to buy what they want and they want a baby. No thought for the baby or the person attached to the womb that carries it.
I also don’t think too highly of the women who sell their children either

SarahTancredi · 04/10/2019 18:07

Yes because employment is renowned for being accessible to poorly educated, ex prisoners, single , fleeing domestic violence having been in an shelter, women.

Bet all those prostitutes/escorts wish they had thought of macdonalds 🙄

yulet · 04/10/2019 18:21

I don't think the mum is some blameless angel here either.

However personally I am always going to "blame" the people buying more than the one selling - just like I blame the people who buy sex rather than those who sell it.

More than any of them though, I blame the society that says it's all fine and allows this to happen.

Cherylshaw · 04/10/2019 18:33

the woman would have hardly been forced into it.
I'm going against the grain here, in that I don't find surrogacy a vile, horrible thing.
the woman was obviously quite happy doing this, the child is wanted and will be loved (presumably).
I think it's a commendable and selfless thing for someone to do. imo
I know most of you will disagree with me but a lot of babies don't get skin to skin or straight on the breast, there mum is not there right away for medical reasons etc and the baby is not scarred for life because of that .

VictoriaSpongeAndTea · 04/10/2019 18:34

Just as with prostitution I don't know what circumstances led the woman (in this case the mother) to that point so it is those who create a market I have a problem, with whether they are male or female.

And I say this as someone who desperately wanted children and needed medical treatment before I was able to carry a baby to term and feared I might never be able to.

How can Ireland of all countries allow the rich to buy babies again Angry

yulet · 04/10/2019 18:36

"I know most of you will disagree with me but a lot of babies don't get skin to skin or straight on the breast, there mum is not there right away for medical reasons".

... so that's the same as a mum permanently abandoning a child for all time at birth?

Hoppinggreen · 04/10/2019 18:38

Almost as soon as DD was born I was taken to surgery, I didn’t hold her until she was several hours old, DH dressed her and changed her 1st nappy etc.
Doesn’t really equate to selling my baby

Squeakycheese · 04/10/2019 18:39

I saw that photo last night and felt the same as you op Sad I'm completely against surrogacy as I think it's morally wrong to buy and sell human beings and it also exploits poor women. The fact that there was absolutely no mention of the childs mother really upset me and the photo could have been two men buying something from a store from the look of it.

NotTonightJosepheen · 04/10/2019 18:41

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Cherylshaw · 04/10/2019 18:41

surrogate's are not always the mum to the baby, yeh they have carried the baby but they are not there biological mum.
I don't know the details of this story but if the woman carrying the baby is not the mother does that make it different for you?

OhHolyJesus · 04/10/2019 18:46

I think it makes it worse Cheryl as then at least two women have sold their biology to creat a baby that will know neither of them.

Currently UK Law recognises the surrogate mother as the mother but the consultation seeks to change that. An egg donor isn't named and can remain anonymous but the child would be half of that person and would know only the mother before birth. That's just the biology of the situation, nothing to do with how good or bad the intended parents would be, straight, bi or gay.

MissBPotter · 04/10/2019 18:46

Totally agree but you will get accused of homophobia. Personally I believe gay men should be able to adopt but I really don’t like surrogacy. They can’t biologically have children so that’s it. Adoption or child free.
Poor woman.
Also don’t like that they didn’t acknowledge the surrogate at all. At least Kim Kardashian and Kanye did acknowledge her when they announced the birth of their children through surrogacy.