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Original poster

Famous men and surrogacy

660 replies

Annasgirl · 04/10/2019 10:43

OK, so this is not to bash the specific person involved but last night I was heading to bed and a story came up on my phone - a person from Westlife was announcing the birth of their baby - through surrogacy (he is gay) and showed a pic of him, his boyfriend and the baby - there was no mother.

So, I totally lost it and poor DH had to listen to me rant for about an hour - but when, oh God, when, are we going to stand up and be counted and take back the rights of women and children?????

DH mentioned that there will always be women poor enough to agree to do this and I countered that you cannot sell a kidney (legally) or buy one so why should you be able to buy or sell a baby???????

BTW, DH agrees with me, but why do I feel I am the only person alive who is angry about this?

And I live in Wokesville (AKA Ireland) and I am worried that we are so keen to be woke and the most liberal place to be gay in the world, that we will soon legalise surrogacy or at least make it easy for people to legally buy a baby overseas and then take it home here. That is what the person was arguing for on his gushing post.

OP posts:
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TruthOnTrial · 09/10/2019 17:30

Sicko!

What is up with some.people.

Those poor poor baniesyand their mothers.

...but hey, yer know, happy greedy selfish CPs
Where there's money to be made you can be sure some low life's will fight for a right to do that.

failingatlife · 09/10/2019 17:31

That judgement linked to by Ohholyjesus, shows perfectly why the law needs to protect women. The men in this case have behaved atrociouslyAngry

FannyCann · 09/10/2019 17:31

A response to the consultation from NIA, an organisation I hadn't previously heard of. I think they give an excellent critique that covers most of my objections to the consultation and many I hadn't thought of. It may help crystallise thoughts about some of the issues discussed on the thread.

www.niaendingviolence.org.uk/perch/resources/surrogacy-consultation-response-october-2019.pdf

TruthOnTrial · 09/10/2019 17:32

Absolutely, anyone advocating for this doesn't give a crap about potential harm to babies and women.

Greed.

Fieldofgreycorn · 09/10/2019 17:34

Nobody 'needs' a baby. Absolutely nobody.

Ultimately the purpose of life is to reproduce life. Reproduction is one of the strongest ‘needs’ there is.The need to create a baby is one of the strongest needs there is.

And no I’m not saying being childless is necessarily calamitous nor does it mean a person isn’t valuable.

A surrogate is helping their fellow human fulfil their reproductive need. It’s not ideal, but it doesn’t have to lead to a ‘damaged baby’. A loved and wanted child is a loved and wanted child.

ShesDressedInBlackAgain · 09/10/2019 17:35

In all scenarios where the 'needs' (in this case 'wants') of adults are at variance with the needs of children, the latter take absolute priority. Why should surrogacy be an exception?

This.

I considered using a surrogate once. I confess that I hadn't thought at all about the issues around it and was woefully ignorant of the wider implications for society. And I was quite desperate and probably not thinking very clearly. But I did feel that something about it just wasn't right in the end and didn't pursue it.

Since I have become more aware I'm so glad that I wasn't able to make a choice which I would now see as deeply morally wrong. Had commercial surrogacy been legal, who knows? I would hate to think how I would feel if I had exploited another woman and my own child in this way. I can't imagine how I would live with that.

OhHolyJesus · 09/10/2019 17:37

That's very interesting Fanny there is definitely wider interest.

For the record I experienced a 'need' for a child, it was basically a 'strong want' but like many things in life we don't always get our needs met. I don't think anyone has the right to a child, to be a parent.

Sometimes I think even those who want to become a parent using their own bodies and biology should go through some kind of application process. I'm being glib but many people are shit parents, some are sick abusive evil parents, and they shouldn't get to have kids if all they are going to do is abuse them or not take care of them.

mypuddin · 09/10/2019 17:37

@OhHolyJesus you say that you love your son who looks like you and you would still love him if he didn't look like you. Up thread you detail someone you know who has had 6 children taken off them. By your logic, why did you have a biological child when you are aware of other children who "could fill that hole/want of a child"?

I think you have double standards.

IcedPurple · 09/10/2019 17:40

Ultimately the purpose of life is to reproduce life. Reproduction is one of the strongest ‘needs’ there is.The need to create a baby is one of the strongest needs there is.

Sorry this is absolute nonsense.

We have a need to eat, to drink and to breathe. If we don't do any one of the above, we will die quite soon. We have absolutely no need whatsoever to reproduce. Millions of people do not do so through choice and lead very happy lives.

So you are quite frankly, talking total and complete rubbish.

A surrogate is helping their fellow human fulfil their reproductive need.
Oh give over. In many cases, the baby won't even be 'biologically' related to one or perhaps both of the 'parents'. How does this fulfill a need?

Some people may very badly want to reproduce. But that's all it is, a want. Not a need. We don't get all our 'wants' guaranteed in life and we don't hae a right to get others to satisfy those 'wants' for us.

mypuddin · 09/10/2019 17:41

This is going in circles so I'm not coming back to this thread. Just saying so people don't think I'm ignoring if anyone references any more of my posts.

TruthOnTrial · 09/10/2019 17:42

Reproduction is a drive.

Your mistake.

Its not a need.

Noone 'needs' a child. If they do, they're the very people that shouldn't have children.

Adult deal with their 'drives'.

Some don't, but mostly they are criminals who think their drives are needs that everyone else must fulfil. Thats a personality problem/behavioural disorder/over-entitlement.

TruthOnTrial · 09/10/2019 17:44

You need to eat to survive
You need to drink to survive
You need shelter and clothing to survive
Those are actual real needs.

So many confused entitled people.

OhHolyJesus · 09/10/2019 17:46

@mypuddin I love my son, the woman with 6, nearly 7, doesn't. Big difference.

OhHolyJesus · 09/10/2019 17:49

@mypuddin I wanted to adopt actually, up thread I've also talked about wanting to be a surrogate myself when I was younger. Things change.

My husband didn't want to adopt, we negotiated and if I hadn't become pregnant in a year we would have adopted. We may still adopt but I have to start discussion for that again and currently now is not the right time in our family life.

My husband has a say and we came to a compromise.

OhHolyJesus · 09/10/2019 17:50

Oh, just seen puddin flounced. They always do...

LangCleg · 09/10/2019 17:51

This is going in circles so I'm not coming back to this thread.

Objections to creating a marketplace for babies proving too much for you? Shocked to find such on a feminist board? I'd recommend brushing up on your politics: feminism has nothing to do with market fundamentalism and Thatcherite neoliberalism and never has.

TruthOnTrial · 09/10/2019 17:51

What has a woman, who apparently (heresay) doesn't love her kids got to do with surrogacy.

Some random stuff being dragged up here.

So many odd reasonings for trading and harming babies.

Why are people not putting a babies rights and needs ahead of people who have no rights or needs over the baby??? Confused

Odd, cruel

Bigpaintinglittlepainting · 09/10/2019 17:52

I wonder about the child finding out down the line that the surrogate is actually their biological mother and how strong that need is to know them. It’s okay when the child is too young to do anything but when they’re a teenager...?

I think it’s a lot for someone to deal with and may bring up the same feelings as having been given away even though as far as the parents when concerned it was completely consensual. Biology is strong

TruthOnTrial · 09/10/2019 17:56

big thats just another one of the massive psychological issues created for dc. There is lots of evidence for it and how harmful it is to a person's sense of self.
Some spend their entire life searching and needing their parent.

Messing with nature and screwing up people.

ShesDressedInBlackAgain · 09/10/2019 18:07

And then getting in touch and finding that that person holds the attitudes reflected on this thread - that you were never actually their baby. Horrible. And probably much worse actually than most adopted children whose birth parents want them very very much but aren't able to care for them.

HeyNotInMyName · 09/10/2019 19:18

If no one has the right to a child, then we should stop any investigation for fertility, any IVF, ACT etc... no sperm donor either.

Seeing that about 1/4 couples struggle with fertility, I’m sure this will go down well....

ShesDressedInBlackAgain · 09/10/2019 19:27

Yes! And intercourse! That is exactly what is being argued here! Down with all human reproduction.

DeusIbiEst · 09/10/2019 19:35

The 2 posts above are just bollocks.

Although it is a great pity IVF was ever allowed in the first place as it was inevitable it would lead to this.

BarbaraStrozzi · 09/10/2019 19:48

It really is quite simple - if you support commercial surrogacy, you support the idea that babies can be bought and sold. And that is just flat out wrong.

Nothing to do with "attitudes" or (IIRC from up thread) "Daily Mail Readers." Just a belief that human beings should not be up for sale.

OhHolyJesus · 09/10/2019 19:49

Posters here may be interested to read Instant Mom by Nia Vardos. She is the producer and actor in My Big Fat Greek Wedding. I think it was about a decade of IVF and miscarriages before she started applying for adoption. Her story is beautiful and heartbreaking. Perhaps she considered buying a baby, it isn't illegal and she had cash, but she chose adoption and I respect her for it. It's a beautiful story.