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Original poster

Famous men and surrogacy

660 replies

Annasgirl · 04/10/2019 10:43

OK, so this is not to bash the specific person involved but last night I was heading to bed and a story came up on my phone - a person from Westlife was announcing the birth of their baby - through surrogacy (he is gay) and showed a pic of him, his boyfriend and the baby - there was no mother.

So, I totally lost it and poor DH had to listen to me rant for about an hour - but when, oh God, when, are we going to stand up and be counted and take back the rights of women and children?????

DH mentioned that there will always be women poor enough to agree to do this and I countered that you cannot sell a kidney (legally) or buy one so why should you be able to buy or sell a baby???????

BTW, DH agrees with me, but why do I feel I am the only person alive who is angry about this?

And I live in Wokesville (AKA Ireland) and I am worried that we are so keen to be woke and the most liberal place to be gay in the world, that we will soon legalise surrogacy or at least make it easy for people to legally buy a baby overseas and then take it home here. That is what the person was arguing for on his gushing post.

OP posts:
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Campervan69 · 04/10/2019 10:47

I saw the picture that accompanied the article and it was a picture of a baby in an incubator being dragged along the corridor by two men. It really resonated with me and made me feel so sorry for that baby she had been ripped from her mother's breast at birth. So she won't be getting breast milk which is the best start for her she won't be snuggled with her mum which is what all babies want for the first year of life. She will then be brought up by two men who have bought her essentially and can have no maternal feelings towards her and no knowledge of what it is to grow up female.

Original poster
Annasgirl · 04/10/2019 10:47

Yes the pic is what sent me over the edge - thanks for describing it so eloquently @Campervan69

OP posts:
ludog · 04/10/2019 11:53

There was a segment on Ryan Tubridy a few weeks ago about surrogacy. I missed the beginning but it was a woman in her 50s who already had (I think) grownup kids who had twins by surrogacy in India. RT was gushing (of course), I was shouting at the radio! We're so keen to be woke here, it's painful!

Oncewasblueandyellowtwo · 04/10/2019 15:21

Yes that picture speaks a thousand words doesn't it.I keep thinking about that baby and the mother it's very sad, imagine knowing when you grow up that you were essentially sold and bought.

butteryellow · 04/10/2019 15:30

I saw the picture too, and felt just as you did.

I flat don't agree with surrogacy. I can see how people would get swept up in it, and there are ways that don't make me feel as though the women are being used as living incubators for money with no thought about them - for example Tyra Banks - in her announcement said 'As we thank the angel of a woman that carried our miracle baby boy for us' - the baby and the mother both celebrated and the mother gratefully thanked. Vs. made invisible - the baby packed up in a box and wheeled away and no mention of the woman who risked her life to bring her into the world.

vaginafetishist · 04/10/2019 15:31

It's horrific, I would be upset to see a picture like that.

AllTheWhoresOfMalta · 04/10/2019 15:46

The line in PP post about the baby never being with it’s mum when that’s all they want for that first year has got me thinking- is adoption wrong then? Or is that okay because there’s a mother figure in most adoption? And the baby is generally with one of its natural parents in lesbian families.... so is it just gay Male couples we don’t like having kids? Even if one of them is the natural parent?

I’m playing devils advocate, I don’t agree with surrogacy BUT it does rather leave us discriminating on Male gay couples above any other kind of infertile couples.

LikeothersIamjustme · 04/10/2019 16:18

Adoption is different. The baby is already without parents who can look after it for whatever reason. I doubt the OP or others would be complaining if they had adopted an otherwise abandoned baby. IME adoption is the perfect solution. The gay couple get a child, a child gets a family.

ChattyLion · 04/10/2019 16:25

I would really struggle with that image too Sad

OnlyFoolsnMothers · 04/10/2019 16:25

picture made me so sad for the baby- selfish people who put their own wants before a baby's needs!!!! That poor soul just wants its mother.

Adoption is not the same at all! In a perfect world a child should be with its birth mother- and yes I feel the same whether the surrogacy is on behalf of a gay couple or an infertile couple.

HugTrees · 04/10/2019 16:28

So are you against a sister carrying her sisters baby for her out of love? No money changing hands? How is that baby any worse off than a baby who was conceived when they weren’t wanted and has a shit life by useless parents?

Are you saying gay men shouldn’t adopt either?

MadamBatty · 04/10/2019 16:28

The picture really fucking annoyed me. A baby being removed from her mother at birth by men. What other institution in Ireland used to do that to sell the babys?

I saw it in Facebook & all the comments were gushing bar 1 that said where’s the mammy & another congrats you bought a baby. Followed by comments of hateful bigot

happydappy2 · 04/10/2019 16:30

It is a cruel twist of Mother Nature that gay women can relatively easily have babies, whereas gay men are stuck....
However, Mother Nature is not always kind-think of people who aren’t blessed with good health or other attributes.
It all hinges on whether you think a man has the right to buy a baby, which really many people would find abhorrent.

Campervan69 · 04/10/2019 16:31

How is that baby any worse off than a baby who was conceived when they weren’t wanted and has a shit life by useless parents?

Clearly we don't want to set the bar that low. We can't control bad parenting but we can legislate against babies being bought and sold like this.

Not that I think for a moment in this selfish consumer society we live in now that we will. If the men want to buy themselves a baby then that will be enabled.

timshelthechoice · 04/10/2019 16:38

Well, one of the men is the child's biological father.

So are you against a sister carrying her sisters baby for her out of love? No money changing hands?

On MN, yes! People who are infertile should just buck up because having children is not a right (unless you're completely feckless procreating with a feckless git on your 3rd+ kid no way to support another child but lucky enough to be fertile).

OnlyFoolsnMothers · 04/10/2019 16:38

A baby only knows the person it grows inside, I dont think being ripped away the moment they are born, whether passed to a sister, a gay couple or anyone else is what is best for that child.

As for the question should gay men be allowed to adopt? Are they adopting a teenager...oh no wait they want a baby- obliviously!!!!!

Having a child is a privilege not a right- adoption as with raising kids full stop, it should be whats best for the child.
Should black kids be adopted by white parents? The lefties of the world will throw out the line "as long as the child is loved"......but its far more complex than that. A child who is up for adoption has already been denied its birth family (for whatever reason), I think they in turn deserve the best family for their situation and to make life as easy for them as possible- weighed up with being stuck in Foster Care

vaginafetishist · 04/10/2019 16:41

Gay men and lesbians are not really equivalents in this scenario.

FWRLurker · 04/10/2019 16:44

In a perfect world gay men would find it easy to adopt unfortunately many adoption agencies refuse to work with gay male couples because they are homophobes who literally believe gay men adopt children in order to rape them. So I do feel for the gay men here.

But, the solution can’t be to use women’s bodies like incubators. I’m sorry it can’t.

If you are a gay man and want biological kids an ethical option is a blended family. Befriend a single woman who wants kids but not a straight male companion and be the sperm donor. Three parents are better than two.

And with feminists support continue to work to convince more adoption agencies that gay male make great parents. The evidence is good that gay parents are not worse than straight ones in terms of children’s outcomes. Keep pushing that angle.

Stop using women.

MrsTerryPratchett · 04/10/2019 16:47

Adoption is completely different because the baby is already here. And everyone is just trying to do the best for them. And adoption is not without struggles, attachment being primary among them.

Creating a child to be sold with sub-optimal conditions built into the process seems horrible. No skin to skin with mum, no mums voice, no BFing, no fourth trimester.

It's not about gay parents. With one glaring exception all the gay parents I know are great. It's about renting the inside of women's bodies, selling babies, creating babies to fill some need of the parent rather than the child knowing it isn't ideal... homophobia is a useful 'shut up the critics' technique. Luckily no one gives a crap about misogyny.

PeterRouseTheFleshofMankind · 04/10/2019 16:47

I saw these pictures on MN and thought of FWR.

I don't know their official statement, but in the article I saw there was absolutely no mention of the woman who risked her and her health to bring this baby into the world.

I don't know why they chose this image either, they aren't even cuddling her or anything, just wheeling her away from the woman who gave birth to her like a prize they have won at a fair or something.

It does seem like the need to be woke about gay men and surrogacy absolutely trumps the very obvious issues with it though.

PeterRouseTheFleshofMankind · 04/10/2019 16:48

Sorry this is the image

Famous men and surrogacy
timshelthechoice · 04/10/2019 16:51

No skin to skin with mum, no mums voice, no BFing, no fourth trimester.

Plenty of women who give birth don't do this, they don't want to and it's a valid choice for them.

MrsTerryPratchett · 04/10/2019 16:52

Some women don't talk to their children? I'd argue that's an issue.

NotTonightJosepheen · 04/10/2019 16:53

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

timshelthechoice · 04/10/2019 16:55

Some women don't talk to their children?

Very little, or at a minimum. Some get sick after birth and cannot be there in the beginning.

And this child is with one its biological parents, one of the men will be her biological father.

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