Famous men and surrogacy

[Annasgirl]

OK, so this is not to bash the specific person involved but last night I was heading to bed and a story came up on my phone - a person from Westlife was announcing the birth of their baby - through surrogacy (he is gay) and showed a pic of him, his boyfriend and the baby - there was no mother.

So, I totally lost it and poor DH had to listen to me rant for about an hour - but when, oh God, when, are we going to stand up and be counted and take back the rights of women and children?????

DH mentioned that there will always be women poor enough to agree to do this and I countered that you cannot sell a kidney (legally) or buy one so why should you be able to buy or sell a baby???????

BTW, DH agrees with me, but why do I feel I am the only person alive who is angry about this?

And I live in Wokesville (AKA Ireland) and I am worried that we are so keen to be woke and the most liberal place to be gay in the world, that we will soon legalise surrogacy or at least make it easy for people to legally buy a baby overseas and then take it home here. That is what the person was arguing for on his gushing post.

That photo is awful. Triumphant theft. Foul.

I feel so uncomfortable about this for so many reasons.

When I saw this picture posted on Instagram it made me really uncomfortable..

As mothers we can tell they have no clue. That poor little baby girl being dragged off like that.

And I know this may seem crazy, but I am even more sad that it is a baby girl.

That photo with the them dragging the baby along the corridor, arms in the air just made me dreadfully upset and full of anger.
Yea it's just so sad.
I've had two babies and I have never seen my partner or another mothers partner wheel the baby around the maternity halls to take a picture like this.
In my maternity hospital there were signs on the walls that stated not to take the baby out of the ward.
For me it makes this picture all the more jarring.

In the UK it's currently forbidden to pay the woman who carries the baby more than 'expenses'.

I had read that the expenses paid which can be a flat rate lump sum, are about 15,000 pounds on average in the UK apparently- but it seems that actually there isn’t any fixed upper limit on payments. This surrogacy group sets it out:

www.brilliantbeginnings.co.uk/blog/how-much-can-uk-surrogates-get-paid

With the Law Commission suggesting that 18 years old should be the minimum age for surrogacy, and no upper age cut off for surrogacy, and that it should be allowed to advertise around surrogacy in future, then it’s not hard to imagine that pretty much any woman on hard times might be tempted to ‘volunteer’ for something which could be very risky physically and mentally for her, and her family, if upwards of double figures of thousands of pounds are at stake.

Furthermore, I didn’t spot a suggested limit to how many times a woman could be a surrogate in the Law Commission consultation.
The risks of exploitation of women and financial inducements seem very high.

To PP saying ‘it’s not her biological baby if the egg was from a donor’. that seems strange, whose body do you think actually grew the embryo into a baby?

Why assume that the surrogate didn't do this out of choice? There are women who choose to do this, are not forced to, are not doing it for the money. Also why assume that the baby hasn't just has some skin to skin and a feed?
You have no idea what's going on here.

Camsie30
Why is selling a baby legal but an organ is not?

@Oncewasblueandyellowtwo why assume this nanny has been "sold"?

@Oncewasblueandyellowtwo why assume this baby has been "sold"?

As Chatty has pointed out, what group of women would consider this, for the sake of 'expenses'...wealthy, self made women like Kim Kardashian, or women living in poverty who think this was of using their biology might find their way out of it? What kind of healthy decisions might they be making if they felt like they had a choice?

And....why would the Law Commission meet with the Dept of Ed...how much money do say university students have and generally how old are they?

I want to believe that altruistic surrogacy is a wonderful thing. I used to.

But then I had my first baby.

After the birth I was very poorly. Drifting in and out of consciousness.

Dd was giving little moans and Dh was a bit worried. The midwife told him to put her on my chest. He did. She immediately relaxed and fell asleep. I don’t really remember it but it amazed dh that dd knew my heartbeat. He’d been sitting there trying so hard to look after her but all she wanted was to hear my heartbeat.

Some babies don’t get to grow up with their mum for one reason or another. Either through illness or because they can’t look after the baby. That is tragic but unavoidable. But why would you purposely conceive a child so that the first thing you do after their birth is purposely damage them? The first rule of being a parent is you put the child first. You do what is best for them even if it isn’t best for you.

I'm fine with use of surrogates if it's done in a regulated way. However I thought that picture was awful. I think it was the arms up in victory that really pissed me off (I.e we did it - we made a baby) at least have respect for the woman not to post something like that. Just tone deaf.

There are women who choose to do this, are not forced to, are not doing it for the money

No, but even with truly altruistic surrogacy, significant rights and decisions can come into major conflict and someone has to back down if things don’t go to plan. Who’s in charge? Who gets to make the decisions around pregnancy and delivery?

Has the baby been sold? Do you know more information about it Camsie30.
Either way aultristic or commercial, that picture is jarring. If in fact the surrogacy was aultristic why is there no mention at all of the mother. None, as far back as May when it was announced.

Also a reminder that the UK Consultation on surrogacy law has one week to go. You can use Nordic Model Now ten minute download to respond.

https://nordicmodelnow.org/2019/08/30/how-to-respond-to-the-uk-surrogacy-consultation-in-10-easy-minutes/

Or just scroll through and answer a few questions.

42 Proposals to lift the ban on advertising.

65 Minimum age of 18 for a surrogate (and also 64 minimum age 18 for commissioning parent of surrogate baby. Who would be funding this I ask?) Do you have a teenage daughter? Ask he what she thinks about becoming a surrogate mother at 18. My daughter thinks young women that age should be planning careers and going to university. And also that they are still young enough to deserve protection from adults who may seek to exploit or coerce them.

71 No maximum number of surrogate pregnancies a woman can undertake. Even dogs have more protection in law in the UK. Licensed dog breeders limited to six litters from a bitch and the Kennel club won't register puppies after four litters.

79 Compensation for pain and inconvenience of childbirth and complications.

80 How should a surrogate mother's family be compensated should she die as a result of the pregnancy. What price a woman's life?

94,95 are concerned with easing the way to bring a baby home from abroad for surrogacy tourists.
At a time when countries like India, Thailand and Cambodia have had to ban surrogacy to protect the populace from the abuses and exploitation of rich westerners seeking uteruses for hire it is shameful that this country should be seeking to make it easier.
Imo anyone returning from abroad with a baby should be prosecuted for people trafficking.

107 Finally gets round to considering if there are any issues for the health service.

118 is basically any other business.

I haven't mentioned earlier questions which are key proposals, which seek to change the way Commissioning parents acquire legal parenthood. Check out the Nordic Model Now answers to get more understanding of these proposals.

Me too op about it being a girl

The only negative comments I saw on Facebook, from posters who pointed out that it was a pity the mother hadn't been acknowledged etc were labelled "homophobic" and "dinosaurs". One Facebooker said there was no "mother" in this case, just 2 loving dads and "just a womb".........
Scary.

I'm fine with use of surrogates if it's done in a regulated way. However I thought that picture was awful. I think it was the arms up in victory that really pissed me off (I.e we did it - we made a baby) at least have respect for the woman not to post something like that. Just tone deaf

I feel the same
The photo is in poor taste

I’m sure they will try to be brilliant dads but it needs to start now, without the press ops.
Skin to skin, breast feeding from milk bank etc can all still be done.

TkmaxxTwirly
*Facebooker said there was no "mother" in this case, just 2 loving dads and "just a womb"....I'm pretty sure this is gaslighting and they are so woke they don't realise it.

Maybe the surrogate wanted to remain anonymous. With this much negativity who could blame her?

That photo is so cold . A very odd way to portray themselves as a family.

I guess it's harder for us that the baby is a female baby as we are feminists and we fight for the rights of all females. She is the future generation of girls and women that we are trying to to hold back the tide against the erosion of our sex based rights for.

Just seen the pic. How insensitive can you get???? Hope the mother doesn't get to see it.