Why do women not believe other women (Boris Johnson story)

[Annasgirl]

I came on to see if there was a thread on this, and there is a similar thread on the topic but it is based on giving out about George Galloway (I'm not in the UK so no real opinion on him except that I don't like him).

However, watching the Channel 4 news last night I was amazed at the number of people (women) who asked why the journalist did not raise this allegation earlier and questioning her integrity.

Now, these kinds of comments square with my impression that the greatest achievement of the patriarchy was to get women to compete always and ever against other women for the crumbs from the man's table. So, women have never been each others allies in the way that men were (war etc) and they instead belittle and criticise the woman in these scenarios instead of the men (see also, the constant criticism of the other woman and never of the married man; the lack of belief of women in rape trials; the lack of belief of women in MeToo; the list of senior female actresses who still defend Weinstein, and Polanski; the madams who procure women for creepy men - and on and on ad infinitum.

Until women put other women first there really will be no better future for our daughters and I find this incredibly sad. I grew up in a matriarchy and I have always encouraged and supported other women and girls throughout my life - I am just always saddened that this is the exception rather than the rule.

@Creepster equally a lot of men never do this and a lot of women never have this done to them.
NAMALT? srsly?
These male dominance displays are all around us ever day.
We can't walk down the effing street without some random d00d putting on a public display of male dominance.
There are not "a lot of women never have this done to them.". Srsly! That is an absurd claim. Most girls experience it in middle school.

Normal people who haven’t been brainwashed by a ‘matriarchy’ as you put it approach all assertions with scepticism and launch an inquiry before choosing to believe them.

No they don't.
Most people have no trouble accepting common occurrences as common, shrug and go on about their day. Normal people do not launch an inquiry. Certainly not to verify every assertion on offer.

I believe her. It was quite a cynical move to write about it at this juncture.

An actual inquiry, right? With a judge and everything? Next time my 14 year old niece complains that some old perv leered at her or tried to touch her bum I will definitely look into that, because you can't go just believing those tricky females.

I don't believe someone just because she is a woman. I do find it suspect why you wouldn't say anything till the man is famous. That creates doubt in my mind.

Also, I hate trial by media, so many men nowadays have their whole lives destroyed because there is a rape allegation while the investigations haven't even started. What if some of them are innocent? There are people out there that go crazy for attention, we can't exactly deny that.

And before you think I'm pro BJ or brexit or whatever: I'm not british and I don't care about your politics.

I dunno Kittens, I think it depends if the pervy man is promising to deliver a policy you strongly agree with

If he’s just a standard pervy man it’s ok to just believe her

Jesus

Is there really anyone who doesn’t believe that serial adulterer and general creep Johnson didn’t do this?

Fuck me (not you Boris)

Ah, that's true. Is the perv useful to me? If so that little hussy sure did pick a convenient time to disclose, so let's all focus on her poor behavior.

There is a thing called reasonable doubt. It might be true, you might want to believe it but the chance that it isn't true is quite large as well because the timing and him being famous would make him a target for a troubled woman.

I have doubts about this story. Just because he seems sleazy doesn't mean that he did it.

Yes, a generic assumption that women are up to no good when they attempt to disclose bad things that men have done to them is definitely the more moral position. So many women are troubled, you know, and that makes things so hard for the poor men who run the world.

So many women are troubled, you know, and that makes things so hard for the poor men who run the world.

Well in my experience it has happened. I have an ex colleague who didn't get her way and then made a metoo allegation against her boss. Nothing happened, I was there, it still needs to go to the judge but so many people believe her just because he isn't likable. She literally told me that she wants to destroy him. These things happen!

Indeed I'm sure you do! Always up to no good, those wimmin. Ought not to be allowed.

troubled woman

Can you actually hear yourself? You think Charlotte Edwardes is a troubled woman?

What other women are troubled? Any you disagree with or who behave in ways you disapprove of?

Retro

Retrosexism is so in right now. Do you have a beard, better? If not better get yourself a boyfriend with one.

I think the other women who 'did not believe' Charlotte do believe her but realised the are wanting to hang on to their jobs at all cost. I believe her because I actually heard about it somewhere years ago.

Is there really anyone who doesn’t believe that serial adulterer and general creep Johnson didn’t do this?

Apparently, yes. Even though Shappi Khorsandi said he did something similar to her, and even though Boris Johnson's friend Toby Young said: ""Back then at The Spectator, in those raucous days, people complained if Boris didn’t put his hand on their knee.”

What's going on here? Do people believe that Boris Johnson's reputation for moral uprightness and marital fidelity mean that the suggestion that he would squeeze a woman's thigh is completely unbelievable?

I think you have to investigate the facts. As other posters have said, women, like men, lie. It’s human nature. Investigate the facts then make a determination but to blindly trust a woman just because she has a vagina is frankly mental.

I’ve been told some unsavoury things by a woman, some of which are true but much is questionable due to so many lies. Once you’re caught lying it’s really hard to believe any of the other stuff.

Leftielefterson

So do you believe serial adulterer and liar Boris Johnson abused a position of trust or not? What does your rigorous investigation of the facts tell you?

Claiming a victim is a troubled woman or even mentally ill is a common tactic to discredit her.

Oh come on! I can't believe what I'm reading on a supposedly feminist forum. It isn't just he-said-he-said in a vacuum of human purity. It's Boris bloody Johnson, sacked for lying, lying about the press being there while actually pointing at them, caught lying over and over again, written as a serial groper by his actual friend (as in RoyalCorgi's post). All against a background where 1 in 3 women are sexually abused during their lifetime, rape may as well be decriminalised given the practically non-existent conviction rates where even women who film their own rapes are refuse justice and where women are just never, ever believed. The balance of probabilities here doesn't really give equal weight to both sides' stories now does it? Why shouldn't it bite him on the arse now?

Jaysus, fucking rape myths now too? Lots of men are getting their lives ruined by vindictive crazy women crying rape?

Yes, we can all see how Johnson's world has collapsed around him at this allegation. He's lost his job, his family, and his reputation for honourable behaviour.

Fucking hell, on a feminist board. I mean, you can peddle your Anti-Woman bullshit anywhere else, down the pub, in the supermarket, in the comment threads of youtube vids or newspapers. What the fuck makes you think they'd be welcome and unchallenged on a feminist message board???

When we think of BJ touching a woman's leg, we rationalise it easily, we think it's nothing.
But imagine your DH (if he's a good person), or your son or anyone who you respect doing it you know they never would and you'd be horrified if he did.

I believe women because nearly all of us have been subject to a mans inability to keep his hands to himself.

I think this is why I believe her - and given his other known public behaviour I don't find it hard to believe he'd behave like this.

I do wonder if among everything else causing the phenomenon it's a that not my experience therefore it can't be yours thing going on as well - see it a lot of the boards more generally.

I have large breasts - I've had women with small breasts insist it’s a myth that men will stare at them or end up talking to them.

I have an older family member who has very little experience of street harassment – she in a small community and been with her bloke since a teenager he’s is 6 ft + and big from a well know family similarly sized – people know her as his wife and tend towards respectful. When she’s out of the area it’s rarely without a group or with him.

As it’s not her lived experience she can be quick to assume women who talk about it have done something wrong -there probably are other things in with that but a large part is it’s not what she expects where as for me street harassment since I was 11 it’s very normal.

Is there really anyone who doesn’t believe that serial adulterer and general creep Johnson didn’t do this?

I believe he did do it.
However, I don't think "he did it before" is sufficient reason to think he did it, because it smacks of those "she slept with lots of men before" type rapist defences.

It really doesn't.