Parents objecting to male nursery staff changing nappies

[popehilarious]

www.nurseryworld.co.uk/nursery-world/news/1168681/parents-uncomfortable-with-male-practitioners-changing-their-childs-nappy

Hope the clicky link works.
The male staff are usually the key workers who would normally change nappies but some parents object.

I'm not a safeguarding expert but presumably the same rules and policies apply to both sexes of staff? How can a nursery as an employer discriminate duties on the basis of sex, or would this fall under the exemptions (ie asking for same-sex person to do intimate care) where the child is female? I'm a bit muddled about this.

My son had male nursery key workers who were great role models.

We can request female doctors.
We should be able to request female child minders

This.

You can request a female doctor or nurse but it cannot be guaranteed on the NHS .

@ShesDressedInBlackAgain

Yes to the bit where you said about non woke working class dads! My dh is one of those and I find he agrees with pretty much everything we say on here!

Those parents are idiots. Have they not heard the case today about that woman peodophile at a nursery now being released from jail? Don’t think yet let make members if thier family change nappies?

Safeguarding will apply to all staff regardless of gender

I too find this a difficult one. On the one hand, I do not wish for decent men to be discriminated against, and for childcare to be seen solely as "women's work".

On the other hand, children are far, far more likely to be sexually abused by men than by women. And paedophiles have been shown to go to extraordinary lengths to be close to children.

I think the point some PPs are making about any concerns being ridiculous, as kids have male coaches, school teachers, music tutors, etc, is not a valid one. Because these are all school-aged children, who can be taught some awareness of the PANTS rule etc and have the language to be able to speak out about any wrongdoing.

Whereas infants, toddlers and pre-schoolers are mostly too young to understand privacy and bodily autonomy, and too young to be able to report secual abuse. So the nursery age-group is far more vulnerable to sexual abuse than are school-aged children.

Whenever I’m examined intimately by a male doctor a female nurse is always present. This is my experience of the NHS ( & private ) and I didn’t even ask for a nurse to be present, they just did it.
So if a grown woman is protected, why do we assume our completely vulnerable children should have no protection whatsoever?

By insisting on a female childminder you’re basically saying that only women can be carers which is so so regressive.

Agree totally that safeguarding is the way to avoid this, not blindly trusting in stereotypes.

And part of the reason why men are more likely to offend is also due to socialisation surely? Not that they are inherently evil? So how can we ever move past the pattern we have if we don’t challenge it?

The reason that the woman sexual abuser makes headlines, is that she is female and therefore incredibly rare. She is still in a teeny tiny minority of females amongst paedophiles in general.

And part of the reason why men are more likely to offend is also due to socialisation surely? Not that they are inherently evil? So how can we ever move past the pattern we have if we don’t challenge it?

Is there evidence that it is due to socialisation though? Not being goady - genuine question.

The nursery I work in has all nappy changing done within the rooms so NOBODY is ever alone whilst dealing with intimate care. Both my sons and now my husband have all worked in childcare. I would be absolutely disgusted to have to deal with some of these attitudes irl and would tell you to take your children elsewhere.

Most men are not child abusers

BUT

most child abusers are men.

It is just fact, not prison statistics etc, if you look at the MeToo movement, mostly male perpetrated sexual violence.

I would consider a male nappy changer (unless cctv) an unnecessary risk.

Putting even 1 child at risk just to argue that equality is a 2 way street is unacceptable.

If 98% of sexual abuse was conducted by women, I would insist on a man.

Agree totally that safeguarding is the way to avoid this, not blindly trusting in stereotypes.

Who has said that we should do this? Where on this thread has anyone said all women must be exempt from safeguarding? Or that all men are evil?

I saw a male gp this morning who gave me a breast exam. He offered me a chaperone for this. I did an on the spot risk assessment (in my head like anyone would have - not on my radfem clipboard I carry for such occasions) I took lots of things into account in that moment - his manner, his professionalism, our relative ages, any instincts I had felt about him, the environment, the proximity of others, the reasonableness of his request to examine me etc etc and I refused the chaperone.

But I would have done a different risk assessment with a woman go, of course I would, because there would have been a different level of risk. Because men are riskier. That is just a fact.

*I would be absolutely disgusted to have to deal with some of these attitudes irl(

Why? What is disgusting about saying that the vast majority of child abuse is carried out by men when the vast majority of child abuse is carried out by men?

Ds’ nursery had this issue. Male member of staff. So many parents kicked off about it. I was asked my opinion by another parent and just said that it didn’t bother me. It doesn’t. Dh changes ds and now Dd. My dads changed her. The staff member was paid to do a job. He did it. Ds likes him. He’s super friendly and kind and the kids adore him.

Nursery wouldn’t have employed him if they thought anything dodgy could happen. The parents who had an issue were told that their daughter could remain at nursery and only be changed by a female member of staff but their son (they had twins) would have to go elsewhere as he could obviously only be changed by the man. And he didn’t work every day.

The parents who had an issue were told that their daughter could remain at nursery and only be changed by a female member of staff but their son (they had twins) would have to go elsewhere as he could obviously only be changed by the man. And he didn’t work every day

Then that nursery missed the point completely. They clearly do not understand safeguarding or risk if they could say that.

No. They do. Always two staff members in the room, door open etc. They were making point.

The parents had kicked up such a fuss. And were rallying round trying to get said male staff member sacked. For being a man.

In this age now of gender fluidity I do wonder what they’d have said if he identified as a woman....

Why? What is disgusting about saying that the vast majority of child abuse is carried out by men when the vast majority of child abuse is carried out by men?

Isnt it funny also how the first question ever asked when a male abuses a child or a woman is always " what where they doing there/why were they alone" in the first place.

So we are blamed for being wary

We are nasty for saying most abusers are male.

And if we allow our guard down or erode our boundaries on the opinions of others who think we are unfair or unkind we are once again blamed for being ir our child being in the situation in the first place.

So when do men.get blamed ?

Also I’ve had to change ds in nursery - and I was always supervises in changing area by a staff member. Two in the room. Even if it’s your own child.

I personally wouldn’t want a male nursery worker changing my daughters nappy. My thinking is as above- that they are more likely to commit a crime.

I accept though that I’m in the minority here and it’s my problem as I am a very over anxious person. My nursery is all female anyway so I’ve yet to encounter an issue.

This is why I haven't sent my child to nursery. I've worked in front line child protection and I dont mind admitting its made me very wary. I wont have a man provide intimate care for my child and I don't care if its sexist. I also wont entertain the idea of Male babysitters . My husband is the only man I trust to provide intimate care for my child. Its a problem for men to sort out as men are responsible as a class for the overwhelming majority of sexual abuse, rape and sexual assault.

Dh changes ds and now Dd. My dads changed her

And there is no difference between two men you are intimately acquainted with and any other man?

Safeguarding would mean it takes place in the main room or with two people present. By your men commit nearly all sexual abuse logic, we should be wary of men who are in any position of trust around children because it doesn’t need to be a nappy change for there to be a risk. The crucial thing is access to a child, which can come in many forms (music teachers, school teachers, youth club leaders, sports club leaders).

And as for the socialisation comment, are we really as feminists saying that gender stereotypes are innate and not due to how men and women are brought up differently? So we’re gender essentialists then?

Shesdressedinblackagain

“Well yes. Class analysis is the diameteic opposite of this”

“If feminism is about anything surely it's about this. Treat people based on their actions, not by the statistics of a group they belong to.”

We should be aware of different classes. We should study them. We should understand the differences. We should sometimes make allowances. We might even take extra precautions...

But no, we should not pre-judge an individual based on their race, class, sex, sexuality, age, etc.

‘Class analysis’ is not the same as ‘class prejudice’.

Shesdressed actually family members are the most likely to perpetrate sexual abuse in terms of stats so a father and grandfather would be more risky in that sense than a male nursery worker.

Its not sexist to say men are the higher risk sex, its based on risk assessment and analysis of crime statistics.
Its pointless being offended by discussions of risk based on class. Are people offended by insurance quotes?